MTG Needs New Leadership and Why Mark Rosewater (MaRo) Should Step Down

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Post by robertleva » 3 months ago

In your opinion. My opinion of you isn't great either, hurray?

Why are you being obtuse about this? The game and the devs are clearly two different things... You can not like the devs and still like and play the game.

Sometimes I will buy the "supporters bundle" on Steam to support a developer whose work I like. I will NEVER do the equivalent of that for WOTC. I will buy the bare minimum to satisfy my interests and nothing more.
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Post by user_938036 » 3 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 months ago
robertleva wrote:
3 months ago
I only support them as little as possible. I will not, however, stop playing with my toys because I don't like the toy company. If they make a new toy I want, I will buy it. But I will not be singing their praises. I really don't even see what one has to do with the other. The people that make the game aren't the game itself. I guess that's a common sense fact that is lost in the new woke era.
Emphasis mine. That there my good sir, makes you a hypocrite.
Krishnath, the world isn't only absolutes and extremes. People can have mild feelings in which they dislike something but not to the point where they refuse to support it.

A simple analog. I don't like Greg, I would say I hate him. But he makes a damn fine hamburger so I buy them on occasion. However, I find Steve is an abomination that is ill fit to be called human. Regardless of how much better his hamburger is than Greg's I will never give Steve a penny, nor would I even consume his products that other's procured because I take a firm stance against Steve. If I were to ever eat Steve's hamburgers that would make me a hypocrite. Yet continuing to denounce Greg while still eating his hamburgers doesn't. I can even complain and say Greg should be making even better hamburgers without being a hypocrite. Its when I claim that the thing I like isn't actually good at all or partake of something that I actually stand against, that I become a hypocrite.

Having a mild stance of "I don't think their doing a good job, but I like some of the stuff they make." Is exactly that, a stance where I disapprove of parts while accept others.

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Post by robertleva » 3 months ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 months ago
robertleva wrote:
3 months ago
I only support them as little as possible. I will not, however, stop playing with my toys because I don't like the toy company. If they make a new toy I want, I will buy it. But I will not be singing their praises. I really don't even see what one has to do with the other. The people that make the game aren't the game itself. I guess that's a common sense fact that is lost in the new woke era.
Emphasis mine. That there my good sir, makes you a hypocrite.
Krishnath, the world isn't only absolutes and extremes. People can have mild feelings in which they dislike something but not to the point where they refuse to support it.

A simple analog. I don't like Greg, I would say I hate him. But he makes a damn fine hamburger so I buy them on occasion. However, I find Steve is an abomination that is ill fit to be called human. Regardless of how much better his hamburger is than Greg's I will never give Steve a penny, nor would I even consume his products that other's procured because I take a firm stance against Steve. If I were to ever eat Steve's hamburgers that would make me a hypocrite. Yet continuing to denounce Greg while still eating his hamburgers doesn't. I can even complain and say Greg should be making even better hamburgers without being a hypocrite. Its when I claim that the thing I like isn't actually good at all or partake of something that I actually stand against, that I become a hypocrite.

Having a mild stance of "I don't think their doing a good job, but I like some of the stuff they make." Is exactly that, a stance where I disapprove of parts while accept others.
This. Now why can't I type like that? lol
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Post by Legend » 3 months ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
Legend wrote:
3 months ago
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
The only real problem Mark has is that he is a White Straight Male. This means that he is mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
Mark is Jewish, not "White".
The man calls himself white. If you have issues with Jewish people referring to themselves as white then there are much deeper problems here than I can help you with.
Legend wrote:
3 months ago
As a white, straight male myself, I have a question for you, for anyone. How do you know that my kind are
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
?
Huh? How do you know that?
Explain it.
Prove it or recant.
I "know" this because repeatedly such people including Rosewater himself have come out and said it. I'm not trying to pull anyone down. Just pointing out real problems that can be worked on. And if as a white straight male you believe you know of all the suffering that minorities face regularly without ever being told about said suffering. I ask you to take a step back and think. Would you actually know about these things if no one talked about them? I am one of these minorities but I didn't even know the majority of the stuff others suffer because I fit two of the above groups, straight male. I've seen others suffer but even what I've seen is a small drop of what is actually happening.

Maro's own words to "Prove it"
There's three truths about myself I must come to terms with. One, I'm a white man that grew up in America in the 70's and 80's. I need to recognize that a lot of things I've internalized as normal and "just part of life" have ugly aspects tied to them. I need to self-educate to understand these biases so that I can remove them. Two, I sometimes miss larger context to the things I say or do. It's on me to use whatever resources necessary to avoid doing this in the future."
You see that part where he admits that things he thought as "Normal" are in fact really bad? That is called self reflection and trying to be a better person. Refelxivly denying accusations is the opposite of this positive trait.
What Rosewater stated and what you stated are two completely different things.
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Post by user_938036 » 3 months ago

Legend wrote:
3 months ago
What Rosewater stated and what you stated are two completely different things.
I'm not sure how you can look at him saying he has internalized things as normal and now realizes they have ugly parts as being unaware of the suffering of others until told. It is almost verbatim "I didn't realize others were suffering until I was told." If you are able to read something else from these words I would like to know how you interpret them. Because I can't fathom an interpretation that doesn't support that fact that because he was a straight white male, he didn't see the suffering of others because he saw it as normal.
mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
I need to recognize that a lot of things I've internalized as normal and "just part of life" have ugly aspects tied to them.

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Post by RxPhantom » 3 months ago

This thread is ridiculous. Maro is a designer. That's it. You know those sweet new cards we get so often? That's him. The business aspect of it is not his responsibility, and it's the height of ignorance to take him to task for it. Moreover, mtglion is one of the absolute worst MTG content creators. He's an inarticulate doofus that feeds only on negativity, and wouldn't have a channel if he didn't worship Jeremy Hambly.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with the direction the game is going when it comes to the onslaught of products that, by WotC's admission, are not for me. Pinning that on Maro is quite absurd though.
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Post by robertleva » 3 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
3 months ago
This thread is ridiculous. Maro is a designer. That's it. You know those sweet new cards we get so often? That's him. The business aspect of it is not his responsibility, and it's the height of ignorance to take him to task for it. Moreover, mtglion is one of the absolute worst MTG content creators. He's an inarticulate doofus that feeds only on negativity, and wouldn't have a channel if he didn't worship Jeremy Hambly.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with the direction the game is going when it comes to the onslaught of products that, by WotC's admission, are not for me. Pinning that on Maro is quite absurd though.
The more I think about it the title of the thread is off, since MaRo isnt the leadership. I also think it's silly to put all the problems at the feet of any one person.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 months ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 months ago
robertleva wrote:
3 months ago
I only support them as little as possible. I will not, however, stop playing with my toys because I don't like the toy company. If they make a new toy I want, I will buy it. But I will not be singing their praises. I really don't even see what one has to do with the other. The people that make the game aren't the game itself. I guess that's a common sense fact that is lost in the new woke era.
Emphasis mine. That there my good sir, makes you a hypocrite.
Krishnath, the world isn't only absolutes and extremes. People can have mild feelings in which they dislike something but not to the point where they refuse to support it.

A simple analog. I don't like Greg, I would say I hate him. But he makes a damn fine hamburger so I buy them on occasion. However, I find Steve is an abomination that is ill fit to be called human. Regardless of how much better his hamburger is than Greg's I will never give Steve a penny, nor would I even consume his products that other's procured because I take a firm stance against Steve. If I were to ever eat Steve's hamburgers that would make me a hypocrite. Yet continuing to denounce Greg while still eating his hamburgers doesn't. I can even complain and say Greg should be making even better hamburgers without being a hypocrite. Its when I claim that the thing I like isn't actually good at all or partake of something that I actually stand against, that I become a hypocrite.

Having a mild stance of "I don't think their doing a good job, but I like some of the stuff they make." Is exactly that, a stance where I disapprove of parts while accept others.
I am well aware that the world is not absolutes and extremes, but the level of vitriol the user I quoted has spouted against WotC, their staff. and their policies is nothing short of hatred rather than mere dislike. Thus, if he hates the company, their practices, and their employees, and still supports them financially, he is, by logical extension, a hypocrite.
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Post by robertleva » 3 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 months ago
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 months ago

Emphasis mine. That there my good sir, makes you a hypocrite.
Krishnath, the world isn't only absolutes and extremes. People can have mild feelings in which they dislike something but not to the point where they refuse to support it.

A simple analog. I don't like Greg, I would say I hate him. But he makes a damn fine hamburger so I buy them on occasion. However, I find Steve is an abomination that is ill fit to be called human. Regardless of how much better his hamburger is than Greg's I will never give Steve a penny, nor would I even consume his products that other's procured because I take a firm stance against Steve. If I were to ever eat Steve's hamburgers that would make me a hypocrite. Yet continuing to denounce Greg while still eating his hamburgers doesn't. I can even complain and say Greg should be making even better hamburgers without being a hypocrite. Its when I claim that the thing I like isn't actually good at all or partake of something that I actually stand against, that I become a hypocrite.

Having a mild stance of "I don't think their doing a good job, but I like some of the stuff they make." Is exactly that, a stance where I disapprove of parts while accept others.
I am well aware that the world is not absolutes and extremes, but the level of vitriol the user I quoted has spouted against WotC, their staff. and their policies is nothing short of hatred rather than mere dislike. Thus, if he hates the company, their practices, and their employees, and still supports them financially, he is, by logical extension, a hypocrite.
You must see me as your enemy. You are an extremist. Check out what a pretty left leaning guy named John Cleese has to say about extremism:



Turns out there's a lot of people just looking for a flimsy excuse to hate a whooooolllleeee bunch of people.
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Post by Legend » 3 months ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
If you are able to read something else from these words I would like to know how you interpret them. Because I can't fathom an interpretation that doesn't support that fact...
I'm not disputing Mark's repentance. I'm interpreting what you said based on your thesis statement.
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
The only real problem Mark has is that he is a White Straight Male. This means that he is mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
To say that anyone's immutable characteristics (notably capitalized) are a "problem", and that they're the cause of something, is textbook racism.
Example based on your non sequitur syntax: "Her real problem is she's a Black Straight Female, which means she's ignorant until educated."
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Post by user_938036 » 3 months ago

Legend wrote:
3 months ago
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
If you are able to read something else from these words I would like to know how you interpret them. Because I can't fathom an interpretation that doesn't support that fact...
I'm not disputing Mark's repentance. I'm interpreting what you said based on your thesis statement.
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
The only real problem Mark has is that he is a White Straight Male. This means that he is mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
To say that anyone's immutable characteristics (notably capitalized) are a "problem", and that they're the cause of something, is textbook racism.
Example based on your non sequitur syntax: "Her real problem is she's a Black Straight Female, which means she's ignorant until educated."
I understand where your coming from but my statement is based in fact while your sample statement is based in bigotry and hate. Would your prefer if I dropped the White Straight Male part because the meaning doesn't change the read just won't know why they don't see the suffering.

Mark's only problem is that he is mostly unaware of the suffering of others until specifically told about it.

Honestly this sentence sounds far harsher as it paints him as a cold unfeeling monster as opposed to a victim of the same system that inflicts the suffering on others. Just instead of inflicting suffering the sysyem blinds him to the suffering it inflicts on others.

To fight institutional racism we need to recognize that it is a problem and recognize why its even necessary for that first step. You would assume such a thing would obviously be a problem but many people are blinded by the system. If you don't acknowledge this problem in addition to the more serious one you will have a much harder time winning.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
3 months ago
This thread is ridiculous. Maro is a designer. That's it. You know those sweet new cards we get so often? That's him. The business aspect of it is not his responsibility, and it's the height of ignorance to take him to task for it. Moreover, mtglion is one of the absolute worst MTG content creators. He's an inarticulate doofus that feeds only on negativity, and wouldn't have a channel if he didn't worship Jeremy Hambly.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with the direction the game is going when it comes to the onslaught of products that, by WotC's admission, are not for me. Pinning that on Maro is quite absurd though.
Ah thanks for the tip, anyone who hangs off of Hambly isn't worth listening too.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 months ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
RxPhantom wrote:
3 months ago
This thread is ridiculous. Maro is a designer. That's it. You know those sweet new cards we get so often? That's him. The business aspect of it is not his responsibility, and it's the height of ignorance to take him to task for it. Moreover, mtglion is one of the absolute worst MTG content creators. He's an inarticulate doofus that feeds only on negativity, and wouldn't have a channel if he didn't worship Jeremy Hambly.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with the direction the game is going when it comes to the onslaught of products that, by WotC's admission, are not for me. Pinning that on Maro is quite absurd though.
Ah thanks for the tip, anyone who hangs off of Hambly isn't worth listening too.
Why are you trying to make this about MTGLion and Jeremy Hambly when these people are genuinely concerned about the direction of where Magic: the Gathering is heading toward? It's okay to agree with people you have a distaste for regardless of their past transgressions or their political bias when the one thing we all have in common is our love for the game.

If we can't come to terms with that then how does that reflect on us as a community? We complain about the health of the game because we actually give a damn and If we didn't then why would we bother? We're better than this. I know we're better than this, at least we were before Social Media became a thing.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

please try and keep this as close to the original topic and the direction of Magic/perceived direction of Magic and not anything to do with politics/racism

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 months ago
5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
RxPhantom wrote:
3 months ago
This thread is ridiculous. Maro is a designer. That's it. You know those sweet new cards we get so often? That's him. The business aspect of it is not his responsibility, and it's the height of ignorance to take him to task for it. Moreover, mtglion is one of the absolute worst MTG content creators. He's an inarticulate doofus that feeds only on negativity, and wouldn't have a channel if he didn't worship Jeremy Hambly.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with the direction the game is going when it comes to the onslaught of products that, by WotC's admission, are not for me. Pinning that on Maro is quite absurd though.
Ah thanks for the tip, anyone who hangs off of Hambly isn't worth listening too.
Why are you trying to make this about MTGLion and Jeremy Hambly when these people are genuinely concerned about the direction of where Magic: the Gathering is heading toward?
And thats where I disagree, as far as I've seen Jeremy and supporters have been engaging in bad faith criticism over Wotc and nothing to do with politics. And thats all I'm willing to go into with that.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 months ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
3 months ago
5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
Ah thanks for the tip, anyone who hangs off of Hambly isn't worth listening too.
Why are you trying to make this about MTGLion and Jeremy Hambly when these people are genuinely concerned about the direction of where Magic: the Gathering is heading toward?
And thats where I disagree, as far as I've seen Jeremy and supporters have been engaging in bad faith criticism over Wotc and nothing to do with politics. And thats all I'm willing to go into with that.
Fair enough. At least you were civil about it unlike the hate mobs on Twitter.
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Post by Legend » 2 months ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
Legend wrote:
3 months ago
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
If you are able to read something else from these words I would like to know how you interpret them. Because I can't fathom an interpretation that doesn't support that fact...
I'm not disputing Mark's repentance. I'm interpreting what you said based on your thesis statement.
user_938036 wrote:
3 months ago
The only real problem Mark has is that he is a White Straight Male. This means that he is mostly unaware of the suffering others face unless specifically told.
To say that anyone's immutable characteristics (notably capitalized) are a "problem", and that they're the cause of something, is textbook racism.
Example based on your non sequitur syntax: "Her real problem is she's a Black Straight Female, which means she's ignorant until educated."
I understand where your coming from but my statement is based in fact while your sample statement is based in bigotry and hate. Would your prefer if I dropped the White Straight Male part because the meaning doesn't change the read just won't know why they don't see the suffering.

Mark's only problem is that he is mostly unaware of the suffering of others until specifically told about it.

Honestly this sentence sounds far harsher as it paints him as a cold unfeeling monster as opposed to a victim of the same system that inflicts the suffering on others. Just instead of inflicting suffering the sysyem blinds him to the suffering it inflicts on others.

To fight institutional racism we need to recognize that it is a problem and recognize why its even necessary for that first step. You would assume such a thing would obviously be a problem but many people are blinded by the system. If you don't acknowledge this problem in addition to the more serious one you will have a much harder time winning.
Now I understand what you meant. Thanks for explaining.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 2 months ago

If Mark Rosewater listens to the playerbase and answers questions constantly on blogatog then why is Standard such a mess right now? He's been working with Wizards of the Coast for so long that he's completely out of touch with what makes MTG good or bad. Would it kill him as head designer to lower the power level of Standard so that tournament grinders have a reason to play MTG again instead of having to sit through someone comboing off on Arena constantly? Nobody likes going up against non-interactive decks with very few answers available to deal with them within the current Standard card pool but of course Mark doesn't like interaction the same way Konami has made Yu-Gi-Oh! non-interactive. You'd think he knows how to design fun and fair cards but a lot of times they end up getting banned throughout every Standard season or Wizards of the Coast just waits it out via rotation. If there's one thing to remember about Mark Rosewater is that he's historically taken game mechanics that were just fine and made them completely worse by making them completely broken. It's a complete insult to the way R&D / Play Design at Wizards of the Coast used to operate.

Mark Rosewater is the same person who thought Companions in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths were perfectly fine and a fair automatic eighth card and half of a combo and your deck was ready set to go in a non-interactive zone (looking at Planeswalker Emblems), I mean there's clearly nothing wrong with that! When it's been 27 years and you're THAT dense then you need to go. I mean look at the Storm Scale, it's a list of all the mechanics in the history of the game. Almost every single one from seven and up which means they're never bringing it back into Standard ever again were his creation. He doesn't know how to do math or limit things or promote fun gameplay users like, "POWER! POWER! WE WANT MORE POWER!" "PEOPLE LOVE POWER CARDS! POWER CARDS SELL!!!", and he drives out everything else and then because he doesn't want his pet cards to be stopped he then cuts all interaction to make sure there's no way to interact or stop them. Mark's done this for the last 10+ years, so now you kind of get the idea of why his influence as head designer has been problematic for the health of MTG.

A lot of these broken game mechanics are really about his ego cause If a game mechanic on the Storm Scale got an eight or nine because it was so hated by the MTG Community with so not acceptable gameplay, he wants to swing back around and take an extra shot at it so that he can say, "Well yeah I was a little rough the first time but we fixed it the second time. My mechanic that I created was great!" As much as I hate to admit this, Mark Rosewater is the Donald Trump of MTG where he's all about his ego and reputation and really doesn't give a crap about much else. As for his preferences for the game like doubling things and big giant splashy creatures? Yeah that's what goes now because he wants to, he doesn't care what you want when he wants what he wants. MTG now has the Yu-Gi-Oh! equivalent of the Extra Deck where you can grab just about anything you want and put it onto the battlefield for free potentially with the way Sideboards work nowadays instead of swapping cards from the Main Deck and Sideboard. Also Wizards of the Coast needs to move away from directly impacting deck construction which is something that works in EDH / Commander but not in Standard or Modern.

MaRo has been getting away with designing toxic infinite combos in Standard for the last four years that breaks a basic tenant of the game letting a card like Hostage Taker infinitely combo with itself because he's too dense to realize it. Don't let something infinitely combo with itself! In regards to Companions, don't let people start with eight cards in their opening hand! Don't let Standard have a Commander that also basically was a Companion. There's so many basic examples of breaking basic rules of the game and pushing power levels so high that it's something that Wizards of the Coast never would've done for balanced reasons. We almost have one example of this per Standard legal set. Perhaps Mark Rosewater should take the time to reflect on the mistakes he's made as a head designer for MTG that's been really detrimental on a competitive level more so than on a casual level. If a game mechanic players feel on the Storm Scale is more balanced than something that's 10 out of 10, that's better than players complaining, "I'm not going to play Standard until this bull crap rotates out".

It's one thing that MaRo should focus on because the game loses a buttload of money and that's what effects people in the most negative possible way. All we're asking for is the game to function on a fair and basic level instead of Mark always printing cards that are too game breaking. Because of how he's restructured Play Design and Card Design, there's now less people at Wizards of the Coast to tell him "No" and now we have Companion and all these other broken ideas. They make the game less functional and more digital to fit within the context of Arena as they're much harder to track. What we really need are more MTG playtesters and designers to tell Mark "No" or just let him leave the company and have somebody else do his job for him because nobody at Wizards of the Coast could do his job as head designer of MTG worse except for Aaron Forsythe as the buck stops with him when it comes to MTG design. So him and Mark need to go. When you look at declining MTG sales numbers and that Wizards of the Coast is releasing Double Masters to make up for all the financial losses in Standard, they can only stall and fudge the numbers to make the math look good for awhile until somebody catches on and they're like, "How's our core product doing?"

In the last Hasbro Stock Earnings Report, Wizards of the Coast had to take MTG and Monopoly by putting them into the same category to not make it look like MTG was losing mountains of money at the time it was. In other words Wizards of the Coast is lying and fudging their reports on MTG to Hasbro and they don't care as long as their bottom line is like, "Oh look we made money", which is why they've been getting away with greedier and greedier bull crap as they break Standard worse and worse and are driving competitive players away in droves in favor of casual players who play EDH / Commander and now unfortunately they have COVID-19 to hide behind as they could use that as any excuse for anything for any amount of time. Rightfully so, but at the same time Standard is at the worst place it's ever been. So If Hasbro were to really take a closer look at Wizards of the Coasts' business operations, customer satisfaction, and other factors they're all are about to go off a cliff. If they stop doing greedy crap to make up for all the money they're losing then they would make some changes. Papa Hasbro would step in and start handing out pink slips.

They'd be like, "Wait a minute, did we just hear that you don't hire any African Americans even as contracted artists and then at the same time the head of the Judge Program said that they don't want more Caucasian males and they're not welcome to the Judge Program?" "Pardon me, what? Whose running this company into the ground or straight into an iceberg?", Hasbro needs to hear the truth. Apparently Wizards of the Coast CEO Chris Cocks was behind all the greedy selfish "Cut the Local Game Store (LGS) for Secret Lair". They may have also brought in somebody saying, "Hey make more money, maximize this, you're not doing well enough" and then a bunch of their pushed power level stuff was a direct result of Hasbro saying, "Make more money" and then giving Wizards of the Coast really poor advice on how to do it because nobody in management doesn't seem to know how to run a Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game. So the whole, "Why aren't we selling more high powered Standard cards to EDH / Commander players or Modern players?" Their answer is "Up the power level". So it's either basically Hasbro's fault or they're completely ignorant of it and Wizards of the Coasts' management is sweeping it under the rug and not letting them know what's really going on by just making the numbers for their shareholders and stock brokers look pretty.

There's absolutely no accountability for mistakes at Wizards of the Coast as it was 100% verified by former employees of Wizards of the Coast on Glassdoor. So If you've been working there for 10 years you can make all the mistakes you want, nobody's allowed to call you out on it, If you do you're fired and giant mistakes by Mark Rosewater, Aaron Forsythe, or CEO Chris Cocks, upper management are never addressed, they're not brought up in meetings about how they can avoid doing this before. It's basically that you're kept quiet about it or you lose your job. That's literally hundreds of former employees at Wizards of the Coast that say how the company operates. They don't behave like a normal company would. They're such egotistical stuck-up jerks who never want to be reminded of the mistakes they make, they think they can do absolutely nothing wrong, they're the perfect person for the job, and that they know everything and nobody's smarter than them which "Welcome to Seattle". That's the attitude over there. Because of that nothing in MTG ever gets fixed. Nothing gets changed. The same mistakes get made over and over. The same anti-consumer crap keeps happening, they keep losing players and it never gets addressed or fixed.
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Post by Legend » 2 months ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
2 months ago
As much as I hate to admit this, Mark Rosewater is the Donald Trump of MTG where he's all about his ego and reputation and really doesn't give a crap about much else.
At least he isn't the Clinton, Obama, Bush, Sanders, or Biden of MTG or every card would have to be approved by the CCP..
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Post by WizardMN » 2 months ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
2 months ago
If Mark Rosewater listens to the playerbase and answers questions constantly on blogatog then why is Standard such a mess right now? He's been working with Wizards of the Coast for so long that he's completely out of touch with what makes MTG good or bad. Would it kill him as head designer to lower the power level of Standard so that tournament grinders have a reason to play MTG again instead of having to sit through someone comboing off on Arena constantly?
He is not a developer. This going to come up a lot in this response but your hatred for the way Standard has turned out, in terms of power level, isn't his realm. He is a Designer; he Designs things. Development and, perhaps more importantly, Play Design, are the groups that are supposed to handle power level. Play Design has absolutely failed in their mission (there is a clip about them talking about Oko and why his abilities were printed that way). This is not a MaRo issue.
Mark Rosewater is the same person who thought Companions in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths were perfectly fine and a fair automatic eighth card and half of a combo and your deck was ready set to go in a non-interactive zone (looking at Planeswalker Emblems), I mean there's clearly nothing wrong with that!
This one is on MaRo and is one I agree with. Companion was/is a bad idea.
When it's been 27 years and you're THAT dense then you need to go. I mean look at the Storm Scale, it's a list of all the mechanics in the history of the game. Almost every single one from seven and up which means they're never bringing it back into Standard ever again were his creation.
Do you have any sort of source on which mechanics he personally designed? Being the Head Designer doesn't mean he designs everything. And, what about the designs he made that were successes? Chroma into Devotion, Landfall, Consellation, etc. were all good and fun mechanics. Who designed those? Are you saying that every bad mechanic is his but every good one is someone else's?
He doesn't know how to do math or limit things or promote fun gameplay users like, "POWER! POWER! WE WANT MORE POWER!" "PEOPLE LOVE POWER CARDS! POWER CARDS SELL!!!",
Not a developer. He doesn't give two %$#% about power level; Development and Play Design are supposed to. And they have sucked at it recently.
and he drives out everything else and then because he doesn't want his pet cards to be stopped he then cuts all interaction to make sure there's no way to interact or stop them. Mark's done this for the last 10+ years, so now you kind of get the idea of why his influence as head designer has been problematic for the health of MTG.
What cards are his pet cards? He is pretty open about enjoying doubling effects. At best, those would be his pet cards and none of them seem to be breaking Standard.
A lot of these broken game mechanics are really about his ego cause If a game mechanic on the Storm Scale got an eight or nine because it was so hated by the MTG Community with so not acceptable gameplay, he wants to swing back around and take an extra shot at it so that he can say, "Well yeah I was a little rough the first time but we fixed it the second time. My mechanic that I created was great!"
I am pretty sure this has never happened beyond Chroma being turned into Devotion. Do you even have an example of Wizards in general (not even just MaRo) revisiting a mechanic because of ego? In fact, this question comes up *a lot* on Blogatog and he is pretty adamant about not returning to a failed mechanic because he doesn't believe doing something to say they can is good for the game.
As much as I hate to admit this, Mark Rosewater is the Donald Trump of MTG where he's all about his ego and reputation and really doesn't give a crap about much else.
You....you don't actually know who MaRo is, do you? This is the single stupidest thing you have said so far and highlights your own ignorance into who he is as a person. Or, at least, the public persona he presents to us. Unless you are saying you have intimate knowledge of MaRo no one else has?
As for his preferences for the game like doubling things and big giant splashy creatures? Yeah that's what goes now because he wants to, he doesn't care what you want when he wants what he wants. MTG now has the Yu-Gi-Oh! equivalent of the Extra Deck where you can grab just about anything you want and put it onto the battlefield for free potentially with the way Sideboards work nowadays instead of swapping cards from the Main Deck and Sideboard. Also Wizards of the Coast needs to move away from directly impacting deck construction which is something that works in EDH / Commander but not in Standard or Modern.
This is just another argument complaining about Companion. Which, again, I agree was a bad idea, but you already said this.
MaRo has been getting away with designing toxic infinite combos in Standard for the last four years that breaks a basic tenant of the game letting a card like Hostage Taker infinitely combo with itself because he's too dense to realize it.
That is a templating/editing issue. It is the same issue Walking Atlas and Marath, Will of the Wild had where text was left off the card. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria would also fall into this.
Perhaps Mark Rosewater should take the time to reflect on the mistakes he's made as a head designer for MTG that's been really detrimental on a competitive level more so than on a casual level.
That is literally what his annual State of the Game article is all about. He reflects on mistakes *and* successes for the year.
Because of how he's restructured Play Design and Card Design, there's now less people at Wizards of the Coast to tell him "No" and now we have Companion and all these other broken ideas.
He isn't a god in the company. Other people are the ones that created those devisions and, again, the Play Design group is where most of your complaints should really be directed towards. And he doesn't control them or have oversight to them. That just isn't how the org structure works.
In the last Hasbro Stock Earnings Report, Wizards of the Coast had to take MTG and Monopoly by putting them into the same category to not make it look like MTG was losing mountains of money at the time it was.
That section is their gaming divisions in their entirety. They called out Magic and Monopoly (rather than D&D, Liife, Jenga, etc.) in that comment because they were the best performers. In fact, they *did* call out Magic in this comment:


MAGIC: THE GATHERING revenues were up significantly in the first quarter, on strong sales of new card releases. Certain shipments were accelerated into the first quarter to ensure delivery to distributors. Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths, launched on schedule in Arena on April 16, but due to store closures the team delayed physical product releases until May 15 in most regions. The game trailer has been viewed close to 30 million times online. Players are taking advantage of new ways the Wizards team has launched to play MAGIC games while in person play events are not happening. Where possible, events have shifted to digital play via the Magic: The Gathering Arena platform.


And if you don't believe this is truthful, why believe anything in the report?

The rest is just a rant about the company and about things MaRo doesn't control. You seem to hate MaRo (and disliking him is fine; he isn't perfect) but at least know what you are talking about and who is really affecting the things you are complaining about. MaRo handled Companions but nearly everything else you are complaining about is Development and/or Play Design. Notably, this is not MaRo.

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Post by Outcryqq » 2 months ago

@Card Slinger J
Thank you for finally replying after your initial post.

Your title does not fit with the article you posted, and your most recent response reinforces your confusion. The article you originally posted focuses almost exclusively on the business practices of Wizards, which MaRo has nothing to do with. Yet your title says MaRo must go.

Your more recent post focuses on what you see as MaRo's design failures, and only mention bad business practices in the final two paragraphs. This is completely at odds with your original post, which focused mostly on business practices.

And so if you read most of the comments on this thread, you'll see that many of us pointed out that the title of your post compared to the content of the article you shared make little sense - Wizards bad business practices have nothing to do with MaRo, who is a designer. Yet your title incorrectly suggests that the article you posted somehow supports your call for MaRo's firing (it doesn't). Now you seem to want to focus on MaRo and support your position with your opinions that the game is in a bad place because of his design decisions.

This should be two threads. One where you spout your hatred for MaRo and call for his head. And another, much more relevant and important one, where we hear from past Wizards employees and take a look at possible bad business practices at the company. Two completely different discussions that you've deceptively tried to mash together to what, get more people to click on your thread?

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 months ago

Op imho I think you (either justified or not) just hate Mark and just looking for reasons to air those feeling. And while your allows to not like Mark I think you really need to reach into what he actually does at wizards since it appears that you really don't.
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Post by motleyslayer » 2 months ago

This thread has turned into a massive argument, so I will be locking it

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