Wizards breaks ties with Terese Nielsen

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Post by Outcryqq » 3 years ago

Source: Weekly MTG, https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020 ... e-nielsen/

It seems that Wizards is ending their relationship with artist Terese Nielsen due to controversy surrounding her ties to offensive individuals and/or groups. This is my paraphrasing of the article; please read the article and the quotes from Doug Beyer, Principle Game Designer on the Worldbuilding Team for MT:G for exactly what was said. Beyer did confirm they have not commissioned new art from Nielsen for a while and that the last set to have any reprint art from Nielsen will be this Fall's Zendikar Rising.

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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Well then.

TLDR for those couldn't bother to read the article: TN has been a controversial figure in MTG for a few years now due to it having come to the publics attention that she is a conspiracy nut (particularly when it comes to antisemetic such) with far-right sympathies (there we go) and is anti-trans. Thus the last new art WotC commissioned from her was in Modern Horizons, and the last reprint with her artwork will be in Zendikar Rising.

The irony that a lesbian woman has far right sympathies is staggering.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

There is a significant portion of the gay community that is "anti-trans" as someone else labeled it. Feminists as well feel (correctly) as if some of the progress they have made over the last 50 years is essentially being erased by allowing trans males to take female jobs and compete in female sports etc. It is becoming more and more apparent that the social mob will viciously turn on any individual thinkers that fall within the groups that they "own".

If you are gay you have to go along with the latest and greatest craziness 100% or they will tear your life apart.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
There is a significant portion of the gay community that is "anti-trans" as someone else labeled it. Feminists as well feel (correctly) as if some of the progress they have made over the last 50 years is essentially being erased by allowing trans males to take female jobs and compete in female sports etc. It is becoming more and more apparent that the social mob will viciously turn on any individual thinkers that fall within the groups that they "own".

If you are gay you have to go along with the latest and greatest craziness 100% or they will tear your life apart.
Terfs have been a problem since the 80's at least. But the true irony is not that she is a lesbian that hates trans people, no, the irony is that she is a lesbian that has far right sympathies. You know, the people, who when they were in power decided to try and exterminate anyone who isn't Caucasian and straight.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
There is a significant portion of the gay community that is "anti-trans" as someone else labeled it. Feminists as well feel (correctly) as if some of the progress they have made over the last 50 years is essentially being erased by allowing trans males to take female jobs and compete in female sports etc. It is becoming more and more apparent that the social mob will viciously turn on any individual thinkers that fall within the groups that they "own".

If you are gay you have to go along with the latest and greatest craziness 100% or they will tear your life apart.
Terfs have been a problem since the 80's at least. But the true irony is not that she is a lesbian that hates trans people, no, the irony is that she is a lesbian that has far right sympathies. You know, the people, who when they were in power decided to try and exterminate anyone who isn't Caucasian and straight.
I am not agreeing with her. I am defending her right to believe any damn thing she wants without being persecuted.
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Post by RxPhantom » 3 years ago

robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
There is a significant portion of the gay community that is "anti-trans" as someone else labeled it. Feminists as well feel (correctly) as if some of the progress they have made over the last 50 years is essentially being erased by allowing trans males to take female jobs and compete in female sports etc. It is becoming more and more apparent that the social mob will viciously turn on any individual thinkers that fall within the groups that they "own".

If you are gay you have to go along with the latest and greatest craziness 100% or they will tear your life apart.
Terfs have been a problem since the 80's at least. But the true irony is not that she is a lesbian that hates trans people, no, the irony is that she is a lesbian that has far right sympathies. You know, the people, who when they were in power decided to try and exterminate anyone who isn't Caucasian and straight.
I am not agreeing with her. I am defending her right to believe any damn thing she wants without being persecuted.
Who is currently persecuting her?
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
3 years ago
robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago


Terfs have been a problem since the 80's at least. But the true irony is not that she is a lesbian that hates trans people, no, the irony is that she is a lesbian that has far right sympathies. You know, the people, who when they were in power decided to try and exterminate anyone who isn't Caucasian and straight.
I am not agreeing with her. I am defending her right to believe any damn thing she wants without being persecuted.
Who is currently persecuting her?
*ding*

We have a winrar. Nobody is, and that's the point. She is the one who is supporting those who persecute others for their sexual preference, skin color, and/or religion, and considering that she is, literally, one of the people they will go after once they run out of other targets or get into a position of power, that makes her support of them staggeringly ironic.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 years ago

Its one thing to right wing politically its another story if your braindead enough to like and believe Alex "Frogs are gay and Obama did Sandyhook" Jones.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

Oh what's the point? Y'all kool aid drinkers are not likely to "red pill" from anything I say. Do whatever the hell yall want. It's your country now.
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Post by RxPhantom » 3 years ago

robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
Oh what's the point? Y'all kool aid drinkers are not likely to "red pill" from anything I say. Do whatever the hell yall want. It's your country now.
Declaring opponents to be "kool-aid drinkers" without offering anything of substance is a dead giveaway for holding an indefensible position. You haven't said anything of substance yet, so...bye, I guess.

Anyway, Terese isn't being persecuted. The government isn't limiting any of her freedoms. Society, however, has begun a slow process of showing a-holes the door. A person's Constitutional rights don't protect them from the consequences of being a crappy person.
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Post by The Fluff » 3 years ago

this is sad.. I like her Eternal Witness and Kavu Monarch arts...
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Post by AvalonAurora » 3 years ago

I really don't get why people with political views they should know are controversial make their views matters of easily confirmed public record by engaging with them through social media. It's just asking to make enemies.

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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

The Fluff wrote:
3 years ago
this is sad.. I like her Eternal Witness and Kavu Monarch arts...
A person can be a %$#% person but still make good art, they are unfortunately not mutually exclusive.
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Post by RxPhantom » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
The Fluff wrote:
3 years ago
this is sad.. I like her Eternal Witness and Kavu Monarch arts...
A person can be a %$#% person but still make good art, they are unfortunately not mutually exclusive.
This, totally.

A lot of Harold McNeil's work is pretty great, too, I think. Unfortunately, he, ya know...sucks.
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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

RxPhantom wrote:
3 years ago
A lot of Harold McNeil's work is pretty great, too, I think. Unfortunately, he, ya know...sucks.
Sooo much this.
I loved his artwork. His circle of protection cycle was beautiful.
Then I found out the kind of person he was and what he believed... :(

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

as good as her artwork is/was, I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier. The sort of beliefs that she had been showing probably aren't some of the things that WotC wants associated with their game

I think @Feyd_Ruin probably said it better than I could have. There's a difference between difference of opinion and just opposing basic rights, a line which Terese crssed

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Post by drmarkb » 3 years ago

Always awkward. I love American Beauty, and several other Kevin Spacey movies. But he is a predatory arsehole, by all accounts. What to do? I still watch American Beauty. Would I still pay to watch it now? Don't know. Possibly. I would not throw away my copy.

In the UK, the left wing party (i.e. socialist) had a leader who perpetually got linked with anti-semitism. Endorsement of a clearly anti semitic mural, a history of sharing platforms with deniers of the holocaust speaking about Israel and failure to deal with people accused of anti-semitism led to the Jewish Labour vote collapsing. His successor apologised for this, unequivocally. His supporters decried MSM, in a Trump like fashion, but it was clear that there was a real whiff. I would wager a large number of people who were clamouring for the dropping of TN would, if they were in the UK, have been voting for his party, given that 70 pc of 20-25 year olds voted that way and we have a near binary two party general election system. Does that make them anti semites? No, of course, but with guilt by association, many would have shared his messages on social media without batting an eyelid. Our three main parties have had a leader accused of racism in his previous writings (with clear use of inappropriate language), aforementioned leader who kept finding himself with anti-semites and 'failed to notice' hooked noses endorsing an anti semitic mural, and a centre left/right party whose leader in 2017 could not answer the question ' is gay sex a sin' and was thus rather rapidly deposed and denounced as homophobic. The vast majority of my country voted for one of these parties in the last general election. Friends of mine shared their messages.

The trouble with guilt by association is it can extend to tenuous links, and grow into something very sinister, so I would like to see the specific prejudicial statements made by TN herself, rather than a few likes of alt right figures or even the likes of her other half, as have been flung on social media. So far all I have heard is 'she liked alt right conspiracy figures', which is not exactly Harold McNazi territory. If someone can point in the direction of things she has said herself on issues I would like to see them to judge for myself, remembering I don't know much about alt-right conspiracy theorists in the US, so just saying 'she backed x' won't enlighten me.

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Post by lyonhaert » 3 years ago

drmarkb wrote:
3 years ago
If someone can point in the direction of things she has said herself on issues I would like to see them to judge for myself, remembering I don't know much about alt-right conspiracy theorists in the US, so just saying 'she backed x' won't enlighten me.
Best I can point you to at the moment is this short thread (but really the 3 threads linked in it). You could go straight to the third, though.
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Post by The Fluff » 3 years ago

the thread feels volatile with various strong emotions, so will be leaving one more post..
have not read the link on the first post, getting a connection time out error.

when I bought a Kavu Monarch from our lgs some years ago, I thought it was one of the greatest things on earth -although the card itself is really not that good-, and when looked at the bottom saw "Terese Nielsen", I thought this woman must be very talented to be able to draw such a thing.

fast forward to the future.. I see wotc break ties with favorite artist. no more arts from her.. sad.. but good things do come to an end.

I don't share the same beliefs as her. Although still a fan of her art.
to be clear, I'm mostly apathetic to politics.... as it's often negative feelings associated with such things - I prefer to spend energy on other stuffs. >.>

/politely exits thread :)
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

According to Rudy from Alpha Investments, there's now a pseudo-Reserve List expansion of cards depicting Terese Nielsen artwork spiking in price on the MTG Secondary Market because of Wizards of the Coast feeling the need to "cancel" her. In other words people who are embracing cancel culture in MTG need a wake up call as they're literally expanding a market for collectibles that cannot be reprinted which means they have more inherit value than other variations. So are we now going to have a Secret Lair for "cancelled" MTG Artists?

Wizards of the Coast knows they're not making as much money off the Reserve List as they once did with cards becoming more scarce on the Secondary Market so they're going after popular MTG artists in order to drive demand for specific variations of popular non-Reserve List and Reserve List cards throughout MTG's history. That's another reason why they've stopped using original artwork for various reprints they've made from artists in order to cater to whales who can actually afford the original variation of those cards.
Last edited by Card Slinger J 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
According to Rudy from Alpha Investments, there's now a pseudo-Reserve List expansion of cards depicting Terese Nielsen artwork spiking in price on the MTG Secondary Market because of Wizards of the Coast feeling the need to "cancel" her. In other words people who are embracing cancel culture in MTG need a wake up call as they're literally expanding a market for collectibles that cannot be reprinted which means they have more inherit value than other variations. So are we now going to have a Secret Lair for "cancelled" MTG Artists?

Wizards of the Coast knows they're not making as much money off the Reserve List as they once did with cards becoming more scarce on the Secondary Market so they're going after popular MTG artists in order to drive demand for specific variations of popular non-Reserve List and Reserve List cards throughout MTG's history. That's another reason why they've stopped using original artwork for various reprints they've made from artists in order to cater to whales who can actually afford the original variation of those cards.
I really, really, really dislike Rudy. He does not care one wit about the game, he never did. Also, conspiracy theory much? The truth of the matter is, WotC and Hasbro has come a long way as a company, and it makes sense from a completely economical standpoint that they'll distance themselves from artists whose opinions and behavior is directly damaging to their brands, particularly if said persons beliefs are exclusionary, racist, and/or sexist (All three of which are the case with the far right, which TN supports.)
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
I really, really, really dislike Rudy. He does not care one wit about the game, he never did. Also, conspiracy theory much? The truth of the matter is, WotC and Hasbro has come a long way as a company, and it makes sense from a completely economical standpoint that they'll distance themselves from artists whose opinions and behavior is directly damaging to their brands, particularly if said persons beliefs are exclusionary, racist, and/or sexist (All three of which are the case with the far right, which TN supports.)
The more they distance themselves from artists the more customers they end up losing which means less sales except for whales who profit off of their original artwork which leads to Wizards of the Coast releasing reprints of cards with worse artwork than the originals that they might not be able to sell but then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If there's one thing I dislike the most it's what the MTG community is doing to ruin the game's reputation on social media. If we don't think like they do then the product isn't for us because that's how they're trying to advertise it as. Why can't people just enjoy a 27 year old Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game without being judged for their beliefs and opinions?
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Post by Ryder » 3 years ago

So... you have to be pro-trans now to make art for a fantasy game? You can't like a post on Twitter or you get kicked? That's not even freedom of speech, it's freedom of attitude. Wait, no. That's gone. Nevermind.

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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
The more they distance themselves from artists the more customers they end up losing which means less sales except for whales who profit off of their original artwork which leads to Wizards of the Coast releasing reprints of cards with worse artwork than the originals that they might not be able to sell but then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If there's one thing I dislike the most it's what the MTG community is doing to ruin the game's reputation on social media. If we don't think like they do then the product isn't for us because that's how they're trying to advertise it as. Why can't people just enjoy a 27 year old Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game without being judged for their beliefs and opinions?
They'd lose more customers/money if they defended the problematic artists like TN, while distancing themselves from such individuals may attract more new customers than who would leave over them distancing themselves from people with far-right sympathies.
Ryder wrote:
3 years ago
So... you have to be pro-trans now to make art for a fantasy game? You can't like a post on Twitter or you get kicked? That's not even freedom of speech, it's freedom of attitude. Wait, no. That's gone. Nevermind.
No, being a Terf and far right sympathizer does that. The issue isn't that she is not pro-trans, it is that she is a TERF and a racist. Hating people who are different from you is not good, it never was. But not being pro something and actively hating something because it is different is not the same thing, and it never was.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

Ryder wrote:
3 years ago
So... you have to be pro-trans now to make art for a fantasy game? You can't like a post on Twitter or you get kicked? That's not even freedom of speech, it's freedom of attitude. Wait, no. That's gone. Nevermind.
Wake up. You have to be a full kool aid drinker now to do ANYTHING without being demonized publically by the social mob.
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