MTG, the Corona-Virus Pandemic, and future events.

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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 1 month ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
I feel that's the direction I was starting to lean towards pre-covid. I could play whatever kind of Magic I wanted online, whenever I wanted. Without having to leave my house, with a less chance of getting paired against a lower tier player or deck.

I was using rental services on MTGO (my Arena Collection is pretty good) but kinda got sick of how poorly MTGO ran on my computer (I should probably upgrade my computer, as it's a potato), but I've been debating just actually buying into stuff on the client right now.

I've been on the fence about what to do with my paper collection tbh. I really like the social experience and the experience of travelling to events. The only problem is it is kinda up in the air right now. However, I don't feel paper magic will be totally dead
If you are planning on going full in on MTGO, you need to see today's Good Morning Magic (found on youtube), it may contain some information that is relevant to your endeavor.
I'll have to look into it then, one of my main reasons against actually buying into it was that it always seemed super hard to get into. I was probably just super wrong and the pandemic made me like how convenient online magic is. Even if I still do miss playing paper magic because of the social experience
It's about to get really easy to get into, just like it was a few weeks ago. Since all the major gaming conventions are basically online this year, they are doing some special stuff while they are running. Today's video has info about it.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 month ago


If you are planning on going full in on MTGO, you need to see today's Good Morning Magic (found on youtube), it may contain some information that is relevant to your endeavor.
I'll have to look into it then, one of my main reasons against actually buying into it was that it always seemed super hard to get into. I was probably just super wrong and the pandemic made me like how convenient online magic is. Even if I still do miss playing paper magic because of the social experience
It's about to get really easy to get into, just like it was a few weeks ago. Since all the major gaming conventions are basically online this year, they are doing some special stuff while they are running. Today's video has info about it.

I'll admit I haven't been paying as much attention past month or so as I've been able to play paper again but I'll be sure to follow more MTGO events. Thanks for letting me know

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

robertleva wrote:
1 month ago
Meanwhile the gigantic elephant in the room is MTGO (or arena if thats your gig). Digital magic is 24/7, 365. You can play any format you want, casually or competitively whenever you like. How long until even the hardcore paper players get bored or frustrated with lack of events and breakdown and play digitally? Digital cards are currently lower than 99% of their paper counter parts, so buying in doesn't feel too bad.] either.

I completely understand that digital magic is not a true 1:1 translation of paper magic. There is something about sitting in front of a guy and reading him that doesn't make it into the digital game. You can make a similar argument for digital / real poker. There is also a fun hanging out with friend social aspect of the game that isn't duplicated. I fully concede that these are very IMPORTANT parts about paper MTG and that folks don't like that they don't exist in MTGO.

I get it guys, I feel the same way. I am asking that you look at MTGO and try to find something you can enjoy out of it while we wait and see what happens with paper events. If you even think you MIGHT want to get into digital magic at some point in the future, I highly suggest you to buy in now while prices are still low. I have nothing to gain here, I am already invested in BOTH paper and digital. I am only saying this to try and be helpful to anyone who might be on the fence as it were.
MTGO / Arena isn't as tangible as Paper Magic so If you decide to invest in Digital then the companies that run these programs have much more control over what you're able or not able to get away with as opposed to Paper where games aren't as rigged and the servers don't crash from getting so many triggered abilities to go off all at once from comboing off against opponents because you're playing against an actual opponent In-Person. It's actually much worse on Arena than it is on MTGO from what I understand since the computer animations are unable to keep up with players trying to break the game as demonstrated by DesolatorMagic If you've actually watched his Arena matches on YouTube. They sort of remedied this with the Spelltable app though it's mostly for Paper EDH / Commander only via Webcam on Twitch.

I do have a few pet peeves about Arena compared to Paper Magic where formats being played aren't as reflected as their Paper counterparts outside of Standard. What's the point of Historic when they could just have a Digital counterpart for Modern, Pioneer, or even Legacy? Are they worried about confusing players with what's played in Paper as opposed to Digital? That really seems to be the case from what I'm looking at here and for the Love of God Wizards of the Coast, just merge Arena with MTGO already! It's not like you have anything to lose here. They also need a way to implement Casual into their Digital Platform since not every MTG player is a tournament grinder. As someone who mostly plays EDH / Commander I can relate to this yet I understand their reasons for not doing so since it would have a negative effect on the LGS.
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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
1 month ago
I do have a few pet peeves about Arena compared to Paper Magic where formats being played aren't as reflected as their Paper counterparts outside of Standard. What's the point of Historic when they could just have a Digital counterpart for Modern, Pioneer, or even Legacy? Are they worried about confusing players with what's played in Paper as opposed to Digital? That really seems to be the case from what I'm looking at here and for the Love of God Wizards of the Coast, just merge Arena with MTGO already! It's not like you have anything to lose here. They also need a way to implement Casual into their Digital Platform since not every MTG player is a tournament grinder. As someone who mostly plays EDH / Commander I can relate to this yet I understand their reasons for not doing so since it would have a negative effect on the LGS.
What they need to do, and even a fking toddler could figure this out, is put the Arena interface and razzle dazzle onto MTGO. Or just combine the two online projects since they don't really overlap...

But WOTC is stupid. They make all the wrong calls, or wait until way too late to make the right call. So they will probably try to support both Arena and MTGO for a couple more years before realizing they need to be combined now more than ever with the quarantine stopping paper events.

You can't fix stupid though.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

I've already said it once on here and I'll say it again:
Card Slinger J wrote: Maybe Arena would be worthwhile for casual If Wizards of the Coast had the balls to work around the Reserve List. You know, implement proper EDH / Commander on Arena where players have actual access to Reserve List cards since they aren't bound to Digital like they are on Paper. Now granted it probably would take too long to get proper 4 player EDH / Commander on Arena due to it being a) made in Unity, b) only being a 32-bit application which means that it can't use more than 4 GB of RAM on any machine, c) it's too clunky on all triggered abilities. Just imagine having to wait on 3 other random players. The amount of time it takes to resolve the stack Digitally would've probably already been taken care of with less time in Paper.

I think Paper Magic is too much of a cash cow to completely do away with Local Game Stores (LGSs) entirely for the communities it helps foster as well as the In-Store Play experiences it brings that you won't find on Digital. Arena and MTGO aren't where they need to be right now to completely get rid of Paper Magic. All that could change If Wizards of the Coast hires the right people to get the system in place for players who are still stuck in quarantine due to the ongoing pandemic If this continues to drag on for years to come. The downside is that this would result in a net loss for a lot of players who've already spent thousands of dollars on Paper EDH / Commander and are wanting to cash out before it's already too late.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

I feel that it would be super hard to bring every person who plays EDH/Commander as their primary form of Magic over to Arena as their main platform. The reason why I say this is because a lot of the format is the social aspect of the format and not just about the game. Even if it wasn't a ton of work programming all 25+ years of Magic into Arena, it would be really hard to replicate the social aspect of Commander.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

I'm just surprised that Wizards of the Coast hasn't posted an official update on when they're going to lift In-Store Play suspensions due to the pandemic which they said was going to be around Zendikar Rising Spoiler Season which we're at the end of right now. Take Home Pre-Releases are one of the few real options Local Game Stores have to turn a profit since they're unable to make money from hosting events for FNM, Standard, Modern, and Pioneer like they used to. Most of MTG's competition are competitive based as they don't have real access to casual formats to help sustain sales for LGSs. I've seen a few one-on-one matches between people playing Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokémon TCG however it's not the same as in MTG where it does have access to a casual format to help sustain the Local Game Store business model.

I've yet to see most of MTG's competition be able to replicate the success of EDH / Commander in the way it drives players to each other rather than solely being dependent on Organized Play in order to gain traction. Yu-Gi-Oh! I think would be mathematically impossible to create a casual format for that doesn't break the game where as I tried to come up with one for Pokémon TCG with a few design hurdles making it difficult to function the way I hoped it would. Cardfight!! Vanguard I think is the only game of it's kind to blend competitive and casual in a way that's unique but is still reliant on Organized Play to function properly. Of course sometimes solutions can invite it's own set of problems, mainly with LGSs trying to keep track of too many card orders being placed for multiple TCG / CCGs aside from MTG. Can you imagine how long waiting periods to process those orders would be?
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

I think that one big issue with announcing plans in regards to organized play/OP is that there is still a highly likely second wave looming around the corner (and probably pretty close). Until we can deal with that, I'd imagine we'd have to wait for an official announcement from WotC. That way we can have a more accurate timeline to start having larger events and whatnot.

As for now, I'd imagine we'll be waiting for stores to run events at their own discretion rather than having anything from WotC

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
I think that one big issue with announcing plans in regards to organized play/OP is that there is still a highly likely second wave looming around the corner (and probably pretty close). Until we can deal with that, I'd imagine we'd have to wait for an official announcement from WotC. That way we can have a more accurate timeline to start having larger events and whatnot.

As for now, I'd imagine we'll be waiting for stores to run events at their own discretion rather than having anything from WotC
See now that would make the most sense logically except there's some Local Game Stores that will honor a company's decision rather than get in trouble for something that could jeopardize their business. Sure it's better to be safe than sorry but just how long though? What If they're forced into bankruptcy by the time a vaccine is widely available to the public? How long would that realistically take unless the goalpost is moved again and again?

Without any updates on Social Media outlets, the local communities that these Local Game Stores have fostered will eventually branch out to other locations within their vicinity or just move on with their lives. When you have a place for players to play and gather that's too reliant on cash flow in order to sustain itself eventually habits will begin to break as it will become very hard to break into that rhythm again.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

I played a few prereleases in store (1 last night, 2 today). The store reduced the number of people they'll allow in events from 16 to 12. Ontario reduced the amount of people at private gatherings recently but didn't do anything about the number of people allowed in public places. So the store was probably just taking some extra precautions, which is probably good due to increasing numbers in the province lately.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Saw some people buy some Zendikar Rising Pre-Release Kits / Booster Boxes and opening them in the store without Events going on. The environment was just as you'd expect with one or two 4 player pods for EDH / Commander. I've been having to leave 2-3 hours early from closing time with less players showing up to play which is unfortunate but that's the times we live in right now. One of my friends happens to be on house arrest due to the pandemic as he's not allowed to leave due to how bad his immune system is. I also just recently found out that a co-worker at my job actually tested positive for COVID as I'll be praying for him / her and all those currently diagnosed with the virus.

The Grocery Store that I work at is one of the few locations within my local community where we haven't had any reported cases of the virus until just recently. I've been meaning to catch up with the other Local Game Store I used to hang out on Friday nights to see how they're doing right now as I haven't been up there since the outbreak started in March 2020. I did manage to get a hold of my friends' phone numbers before the pandemic started in case I need to contact them. I know this pandemic has been hard on a lot of us lately as I still miss my friends that I used to hang out with on Fridays while I'm still able to see them on Saturdays at the other LGS I go to If they're willing to show up.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

The store I've been playing at had 10 people there for commander last Thursday, which seems really high. Most people I know are tending to play commander at home because commander is mostly played casually in my area.

I've been fortunate to be in an area with very low covid numbers outside Canadians who were brought back from other countries onto the military base in town. However I wish your coworker the best and hope that nobody else at your work gets the virus.

The Canadian government seems to be steering towards believing the second wave has already started so let's see how that impacts in store play. I've pretty much given up hope expecting to see Magic Fests until 2022

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Thanks. I almost got fired from my job cause I accidentally scrapped a customer's vehicle while doing carts. I didn't even realize he was in the vehicle with his daughter when it happened. Luckily the damage to the vehicle was minor that was a rental which will hopefully be paid for with insurance. The customer scolded me while I was with my boss taking a picture of the damage with his tablet with an attitude going, "Answer the damn question..." not realizing that I was autistic. Of course it also didn't help that I didn't have my glasses on cause I didn't want them to get fogged up while wearing my face mask outside. Somehow I don't seem to have a problem wearing my glasses at my LGS but at work it's kind of tricky.

Note to self don't ever try to squeeze carts through narrow spaces between vehicles parked by cart corrals without hitting them, though I always did feel as though this scenario was going to bite me in the ass one of these days and it did. I was worried that the customers' wife was going to call the police on me or have me go on trial for accidentally damaging their vehicle. Between that and a 5-6 year old boy kicking me while I was sacking groceries the other day this weeks' been pretty rough for me. That kid even read my name tag plotting to kill me one day. I feel as though the face mask mandate has brought upon some very evil tendencies within customers at my store.

I'm honestly considering retiring from MTG with the way things are going right now in society. I shouldn't have to feel obligated to this gaming hobby that I only get any real use out of on a one day a week basis which used to be a two day a week basis Pre-COVID. Sure I mainly do this for the public social experience while it shouldn't have to feel like a luxury pricing out those who are unable to play Paper Magic. Yet If I give up now then the likelihood of my LGS going out of business is more likely to happen. Think of it as being stuck in a 18 year marriage that you're too afraid to get divorced from because you feel as though you're going to regret it one day.
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Post by robertleva » 1 month ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
The store I've been playing at had 10 people there for commander last Thursday, which seems really high. Most people I know are tending to play commander at home because commander is mostly played casually in my area.

I've been fortunate to be in an area with very low covid numbers outside Canadians who were brought back from other countries onto the military base in town. However I wish your coworker the best and hope that nobody else at your work gets the virus.

The Canadian government seems to be steering towards believing the second wave has already started so let's see how that impacts in store play. I've pretty much given up hope expecting to see Magic Fests until 2022
What company do you think will take up the reigns for organizing Magic Fest events in the future? (whatever point that may be)
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

Based on some information I got from one of my LGS owners, it seems as though Wizards of the Coast should announce something about In-Store Play next month so I guess we'll see what happens.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

robertleva wrote:
1 month ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 month ago
The store I've been playing at had 10 people there for commander last Thursday, which seems really high. Most people I know are tending to play commander at home because commander is mostly played casually in my area.

I've been fortunate to be in an area with very low covid numbers outside Canadians who were brought back from other countries onto the military base in town. However I wish your coworker the best and hope that nobody else at your work gets the virus.

The Canadian government seems to be steering towards believing the second wave has already started so let's see how that impacts in store play. I've pretty much given up hope expecting to see Magic Fests until 2022
What company do you think will take up the reigns for organizing Magic Fest events in the future? (whatever point that may be)
I actually don't know how to really answer that but it's probably worth discussing a bit. Part of me wants to see Magic Fests be run like they were in the past and have a few different organizers run them. This way there's no monopoly on them but there is an issue of consistency/standards among organizers. With one place running them you know how they'll be run regardless if its in LA or even Quebec City. But this gives a monopoly on them. As for who I can see running them, it's hard to say who can run them. I can't see SCG running Magic Fests as they have their own tournament series. I also don't know who else has the resources to take over Magic Fests

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

ChannelFireball and Star City Games didn't just have a monopoly on running Organized Play events for Paper Magic but also threatened to put Local Game Stores out of business by directly competing against them. These small businesses refused to buy high end Reserve List cards because of how it would heighten the threat of these stores getting shoplifted especially since most buyers couldn't afford them. So these cards ended up going to big businesses like ChannelFireball and Star City Games instead where they used the revenue to hold cash prize tournaments for those wanting to compete in Paper Magic formats like Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage.

They would rent out buildings with huge overhead to provide the kind of In-Store Play to accommodate the kind of player turnouts that these events would fire. It was also more of a convention like San Diego Comic Con where you have Reserve List cards being showcased, sold, or even auctioned off by those who could afford them. As far as another organization that could take the reins of Magic Fests I think Alter Reality Games would be the last to really tackle it given their poor track record of judging and organizing for other Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games in the past. When they tried running events for Cardfight!! Vanguard as Best 2 out of 3 Swiss matches, Bushiroad got onto them about it and forbade it.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 month ago

While it is probably just next to undeniable the impact that stores the size of SCG and CFB have on the market due to their sheer size and money available to them, I think there are many people who realize the benefits that buying cards at their LGS. By buying at an LGS, you can avoid the hassle of waiting for cards in the mail. While most LGS can't come anywhere near the ability to run events the size or prize payout that CFB and CG can, by playing at your LGS you are supporting their ability to run smaller events that everyone in the local community can play at and don't need to worry about travelling to larger more competitive events. Plus not everyone is into larger, more competitive events. There are also people who would rather just play casually without anything on the line.

One thing I'm kinda worried about is people probably got used to ordering from larger sites when everything was more locked down, especially in areas where stores weren't doing delivery or curbside pickups

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 month ago

The prize payout for these type of events that ChannelFireball and Star City Games hold is literally what Local Game Stores have to survive on to stay in business. That's why when they used to be able to hold events they give away swag like promo cards, playmats, and perhaps the option of acquiring anything being sold at the store free of charge. If you're looking to earn a scholarship by taking 1st place at an event then don't go expecting that sort of thing at a Local Game Store where they can't even afford it. If their profit margins were much higher they probably could but realistically I just don't see that sort of thing happening.
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Post by motleyslayer » 4 weeks ago

Honestly cool random extra things like playmats and promos were some of my favourite parts about playing events at a store. I also love the social aspect, which you can't get online.

There are several people I only really see at magic fests, so I probably won't see them for a while

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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 week ago

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/467 ... store-play

With the October 15th deadline already here, Wizards of the Coast has decided to push the goalpost further of keeping All In-Store Play Suspended at least until November 11th following the Take Home Pre-Release for Commander Legends. This means that Local Game Stores (LGSs) are still unable to host and run In-Person Events due to the ongoing pandemic while players can still show up to play EDH / Commander and other formats casually among their local playgroups.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 week ago

I think that they made the safest call tbh. I don't know what it's like in the US rn(but assuming bad if it warranted extending the suspension on in store play) but it's been getting worse in Canada for just over a month I'd say. I can't see in store events happening on a large basis until at least halfway through next year and that's just for small level events. Magic Fests and in person Players Tours are probably out of the question until probably 2022 at the earliest and that's assuming they figure out who will run them

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Post by Krishnath » 1 week ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 week ago
I think that they made the safest call tbh. I don't know what it's like in the US rn(but assuming bad if it warranted extending the suspension on in store play) but it's been getting worse in Canada for just over a month I'd say. I can't see in store events happening on a large basis until at least halfway through next year and that's just for small level events. Magic Fests and in person Players Tours are probably out of the question until probably 2022 at the earliest and that's assuming they figure out who will run them
Over 200k dead in the US so far, with them on track to pass 300k before the end of the year. And that is just the official numbers.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 week ago

Krishnath wrote:
1 week ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 week ago
I think that they made the safest call tbh. I don't know what it's like in the US rn(but assuming bad if it warranted extending the suspension on in store play) but it's been getting worse in Canada for just over a month I'd say. I can't see in store events happening on a large basis until at least halfway through next year and that's just for small level events. Magic Fests and in person Players Tours are probably out of the question until probably 2022 at the earliest and that's assuming they figure out who will run them
Over 200k dead in the US so far, with them on track to pass 300k before the end of the year. And that is just the official numbers.
Canada hasn't even hit 10k in terms of deaths yet. The area I live in barely got hit at all first wave but has had some in the past month.

I don't know about everyone else but I really miss competitive paper Magic. I've been thinking of finding more comp arena events but it looks like Redbull Untapped are the only event series right now, as SCG hasn't run anything in a while

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Post by Krishnath » 1 week ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 week ago
Krishnath wrote:
1 week ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 week ago
I think that they made the safest call tbh. I don't know what it's like in the US rn(but assuming bad if it warranted extending the suspension on in store play) but it's been getting worse in Canada for just over a month I'd say. I can't see in store events happening on a large basis until at least halfway through next year and that's just for small level events. Magic Fests and in person Players Tours are probably out of the question until probably 2022 at the earliest and that's assuming they figure out who will run them
Over 200k dead in the US so far, with them on track to pass 300k before the end of the year. And that is just the official numbers.
Canada hasn't even hit 10k in terms of deaths yet. The area I live in barely got hit at all first wave but has had some in the past month.

I don't know about everyone else but I really miss competitive paper Magic. I've been thinking of finding more comp arena events but it looks like Redbull Untapped are the only event series right now, as SCG hasn't run anything in a while
To be honest, I haven't played at an LGS for years since the one I frequented shut down. The owner got tired of getting robbed every two months on average despite a Police Station being literally less than 100m away.

We've had I think it's just shy of 10k deaths here in Sweden so far. It doesn't sound like much, but when there are only about 11 million people in the country, that isn't good.
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