MTG, the Corona-Virus Pandemic, and future events.

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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago

The bolded portion. Are these real actual people or an assumption? Are there people who are both trying to get others into magic and treating the reserved list as a stock market? Or do you mean magic cards in general and not specifically the reserved list?
They are real people, and they are assholes every one.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

So just out of curiosity what would happen to Paper Magic and Local Game Stores (LGSs) If there was an Internet Blackout during the middle of this current Global Pandemic we're in? The only real line of defense Local Game Stores (LGSs) have aside from community is e-commerce sales to help compete against Amazon and other online retailers / vendors. If nobody is able to show up to their Local Game Store (LGS) because of the virus preventing them from participating in In-Store Play / Organized Play then how are they going to be able to stay in business? Purchasing card singles will be more of a pain in the ass again If your Local Game Store doesn't have a particular card you need but what would be the point If the virus makes it to where you can't play?

You literally would not be able to play MTG ANYWHERE either in Digital or Paper because it would ALL be shutdown. Want to play Arena / MTGO with other players online or participate in remote play? Can't do it. Want to go play EDH / Commander with your playgroups or grind in a tournament at your Local Game Store (LGS)? Can't do that either. This would be a Black Swan Event times two! Given how crazy 2020 has been recently I can't rule out the possibility of this actually happening. Look I know this is conspiratorial and I'm not trying to fearmonger anyone when I'm curious as to how people would get through this kind of crisis much like our current one.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

That's the fun thing about the internet, it's very nature and design has made it extremely resilient. People have been able to access the internet in the midst of hurricanes and the aftermath of various natural disasters, even when a nation decides to shut down the internet in their country (usually because people are turning against the government and said government is run by despots and tyrants), they never manage to black it out completely. The thing was literally designed to withstand thermonuclear war.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Apparently there's been A LOT of misinformation lately about Wizards of the Coasts' In-Store Play / Organized Play Suspension for Local Game Stores (LGSs) that's currently in effect until September due to COVID-19. Turns out that In-Store Play IS still allowed at Local Game Stores except for Organized Play which means that If you're wanting to get together with a playgroup at an LGS to play EDH / Commander you can still do that. The announcement just meant that stores aren't allowed to run shop events and big events like FNM.

The Local Game Stores within my vicinity didn't post any announcements about this on their official website or their social media accounts on Facebook and Twitter. I called one of them last week and they said that they were temporarily suspending In-Store Play at their store but didn't have time to post it on their Facebook account since they've been busy with their distributors and stocking up on new products to sell. I'm thinking about calling another LGS to see If that's the same issue cause I found this to be rather strange.

I haven't actually got to play at ANY LGS for the last 4-5 months since the pandemic hit in the U.S. though that hasn't stopped me from finishing up on 2 EDH / Commander decks with a new one in the works which could be my final project If things go south in the foreseeable future. I've been purchasing more on TCGPlayer than I have on eBay while I just recently spent $44.86 at one LGS that I normally went to on Saturdays and I expect to spend more there depending on whatever is left in their inventory for card singles. Am I the only one noticing these In-Store Play issues at LGSs recently?
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

thanks for clearing that up, I was looking to look into the announcement because I was a bit confused still myself. I've been hoping to get together with people at my store once they allow us to, which I hope will be within the next few weeks.

Now that there are less restrictions on people inside stores, I stop by my LGS a lot more, especially since it's basically on my way home from work

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

This conversation reminds me of a recent magazine article I read on the latest issue of National Geographic by Oliver Whang titled, "When Virtual Life Turns Into Quarantine" where it talks about how isolation from other people in a health crisis is one thing when the question we REALLY should be asking ourselves is what If we get used to living virtual lives through our electronic devices that we never want to emerge into the physical world? Does experiencing the world tell us something that we couldn't have learned by reading up on it? Things that we miss in the physical world are referred to as "qualia" and it's everywhere - in the Sun, the Earth, and other people. They're what's lacking in a strictly virtual life that isn't as fulfilling as it is in a physical world.

So the fear from the next generation isn't necessarily a fear of contracting COVID-19 but a fear that is the profound uncertainty of their future and their predecessors as well since we're ALL connected as one human race. If there's anything scarier than the possibility of COVID-19 never going away is that the ubiquity of virtual living might never go away either. There's a legitimate fear that the experience of this pandemic might convince people that we can keep living just fine while physically isolated from others where it's very easy nowadays to slip into that reality. There's days when people don't even leave their homes as their only human contact is a close family member.

In this environment something clearly is lost because people feel different when they experience things directly rather than virtually. There's some things in life that you can't stimulate like the physical presence of another human being. No computer screen will EVER replace the feeling of an arm around someone's shoulders. It's important now more than ever not to lose our physical connection to the world. The qualia. No matter how bad the world gets we ALL need to Stay Human. It's hard when you go to work having to wear a face mask unable to convey any kind of human emotion or expression, not even a smile. That's why people are so miserable with their lives lately no matter where they go because they can no longer escape.
"Salvation is for those who are afraid of Hell. Spirituality is for those who have lived through it."

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
This conversation reminds me of a recent magazine article I read on the latest issue of National Geographic by Oliver Whang titled, "When Virtual Life Turns Into Quarantine" where it talks about how isolation from other people in a health crisis is one thing when the question we REALLY should be asking ourselves is what If we get used to living virtual lives through our electronic devices that we never want to emerge into the physical world? Does experiencing the world tell us something that we couldn't have learned by reading up on it? Things that we miss in the physical world are referred to as "qualia" and it's everywhere - in the Sun, the Earth, and other people. They're what's lacking in a strictly virtual life that isn't as fulfilling as it is in a physical world.

So the fear from the next generation isn't necessarily a fear of contracting COVID-19 but a fear that is the profound uncertainty of their future and their predecessors as well since we're ALL connected as one human race. If there's anything scarier than the possibility of COVID-19 never going away is that the ubiquity of virtual living might never go away either. There's a legitimate fear that the experience of this pandemic might convince people that we can keep living just fine while physically isolated from others where it's very easy nowadays to slip into that reality. There's days when people don't even leave their homes as their only human contact is a close family member.

In this environment something clearly is lost because people feel different when they experience things directly rather than virtually. There's some things in life that you can't stimulate like the physical presence of another human being. No computer screen will EVER replace the feeling of an arm around someone's shoulders. It's important now more than ever not to lose our physical connection to the world. The qualia. No matter how bad the world gets we ALL need to Stay Human. It's hard when you go to work having to wear a face mask unable to convey any kind of human emotion or expression, not even a smile. That's why people are so miserable with their lives lately no matter where they go because they can no longer escape.
Excellent points here, I may even check out that article. The bolded part is the new normal we should expect for the foreseeable future.

I would never have thought that virtual life would be as possible as it already is. At the very least I assumed sex and the desire for new sexual partners would have had people up in arms about bars and social gathering being interfered with. Turns out no one cares; sex drives are being kept in check virtually as well.

So this is where we are. The founders of the country knew that this experiment would fail if the country abandoned God, and we have done just that. Without religion, the country has no shared values that we all agree on, the most important of which is that human life is precious.

The founders knew that an immoral country is incompatible with freedom. The immoral will use that freedom to bring about oppression, which is exactly what is happening to us now.
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Post by clariwench » 3 years ago

"We, the General Assembly of Virginia, do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, or shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions of belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capabilities." - Thomas Jefferson

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God." - Thomas Jefferson

"Government has no right to hurt a hair of the head of an atheist for his opinions. Let him have a care of his practices." - John Adams

How can you claim the need for freedom yet want to restrict those freedoms with religion? America was founded on freedom of religion and many religious sects have completely different views on what is right or wrong. So, which morality are we supposed to subscribe to? Yours?

I'd also say that unless you're living under a rock, nearly everyone is clamoring to return to their normal social circles. People are literally risking their lives to go out to eat with friends at Golden Corral (seriously, the parking lot is full every time I drive by). I don't think we have to worry about humanity staying isolated after this. Is the government not wanting you and your loved ones to die "oppression" now?
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Post by Legend » 3 years ago

clariwench wrote:
3 years ago
So, which morality are we supposed to subscribe to?
The same morality to which every single founding father (and their counselors) subscribed: That of Jesus. Even Thomas Jefferson, who did not believe in the miracles or diety of Jesus, conceded to His wisdom and morality, so much so that he contrived The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

this thread is getting quite off topic again, so please keep it on topic as related to Magic. Any further off topic posts will be given spam warnings

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

I do want to point out that the health of Paper Magic depends on accessibility, and for older formats and EDH / Commander being too expensive is a bigger issue for Wizards of the Coast than Local Game Store (LGS) availability hence why we're getting Double Masters. Yes Local Game Stores (and online vendors like Star City Games / ChannelFireball) rely on the Secondary Market, buying cards at below market value and selling at a profit. The risk of that strategy is that it's speculation. Usually they make money from it, but there is always a risk that cards will drop in value, either due to rotation, the hot deck that needs it going out of fashion, or reprints. The Local Game Store (LGS) business model needs to adapt to where the Secondary Market is a supplement to their business model rather than an integral part of it. Not for any moral reason, but because doing so will make their businesses more stable and resilient to market shocks. Can't say it will help better prepare themselves for the next pandemic when it happens but maybe they'll survive the storm.

The reason why Wizards of the Coast doesn't see the Local Game Store as THE central hub for players to play Paper Magic is due to online surveys. They do a fair amount of market research to determine how people play the game and what players like and want so that they can target products to them. The reason why we're seeing so many premium products is because their market research told them that a significant portion of the player base wants those kind of products. They have a major commitment toward EDH / Commander even though it's costing the health of competitive formats exponentially by pushing power creep in order to sell cards. Wizards of the Coast isn't about to abandon Local Game Stores because they still make money from them, tournament engagement increases the amount people spend on Paper Magic. It's what creates public social gatherings to form playgroups with random strangers that have similar interests as you and me. They may have personal backgrounds that aren't as pleasing but that's not really the point.

As for long term Local Game Store (LGS) viability, it was a struggle even before COVID-19. Stores in big cities with a younger population do well, as do stores in college towns, because they have a large customer base to draw on. Stores in more rural areas, or smaller suburbs, struggle because there just aren't enough customers. You need a certain concentration of nerd culture involved people to serve for a nerd culture exclusive business to thrive, even when you're diversified within that culture by selling comics, games, in addition to running D&D campaigns, Warhammer tournaments, as well as MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Pokémon events. A plausible business model where for these areas where LGSs tend to struggle is to run it as a combination business with some other sort of entertainment hub like a bowling alley or a skating rink. Most have sizeable party rooms that can host events and areas that usually have pool tables and arcade games that could be retrofitted as the sales floor for product. You could probably think of it like a Dave & Busters or Chuck E. Cheese's.

Perhaps even a diner, they could have large banquet areas to host gaming clubs during the day where they're empty during the night. By gaming clubs, I mean senior citizens playing Bridge and Bingo and stuff. Imagine running FNM events by having players order their food from you instead of bringing McDonald's or ordering something off of DoorDash or GrubHub. There's potential there, it just requires innovation, something that's been severely lacking in the LGS sector. It's still operating under the business model that worked in the 90's. The problem I see with getting this to work is that the profit margins make it almost impossible for this to work. A lot of LGS owners lack the proper business experience especially in real estate to know how to get this sort of innovation off the ground and running properly. As COVID-19 has already shown us, is the risk to run this kind of operation worth the reward long term? These LGS owners aren't looking to run an Adult Daycare Center when they're just trying to make enough money to retire on.
Last edited by Card Slinger J 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

as my main LGS I go to hasn't started allowing people to play in store yet, playing somewhere else that allows some number of people inside for a bit has been something I've toyed with the idea of. Mostly because I kinda miss actually playing cards in paper. I might see if I can get a group together depending if I can get an actual answer from the store

While I was enjoying playing online events, I've taken a bit of a break. Mostly due to standard being kinda boring and not really liking MTGO as a platform

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
as my main LGS I go to hasn't started allowing people to play in store yet, playing somewhere else that allows some number of people inside for a bit has been something I've toyed with the idea of. Mostly because I kinda miss actually playing cards in paper. I might see if I can get a group together depending if I can get an actual answer from the store

While I was enjoying playing online events, I've taken a bit of a break. Mostly due to standard being kinda boring and not really liking MTGO as a platform
This is why I don't trust Social Media outlets to find playgroups for playing Paper Magic due to the toxicity of PC / Cancel Culture. Even If that wasn't the case I'd much rather contact my friends via e-mail address or phone number though it's not the same as going to your Local Game Store and waiting on your friends to show up just to play cards. It used to be more like an obligation to come unless you had to work.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I'm in several facebook groups for the various communities in which I attend events at. While there have been a few problems arise in those groups, they're so few and far behind I don't care if I see them. Knowing what kind of events are going on makes it worth it.

Pre-covid, people would show up to play mostly commander but occasionally test other formats kind of whenever they wanted on Saturdays. At this point I'd consider getting a few people together at a Tim Hortons or something if possible/allowed

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago


https://dsgcw.blogspot.com/2020/07/hobb ... sures.html
Desert Sky Games wrote: Okaaaaay then. The first-half list for 2020 is short, of course, owing to no particular disruptive events across the industry or our economy. If only that were true. What a first half of the year we've all had, and somehow the second half has not started off especially better. Small businesses have taken it on the chin, and we are here to mark the passage of some that took that blow and did not get back up.

New to this post or to The Backstage Pass? Here's what we're doing. These store closure posts are among the highest-read and highest-shared articles I write, and one would think some more official source like GAMA would take up the mantle of tracking this, but I guess not so far.

Today's list has a tag of "COVID" for stores that cite specifically the pandemic disruption as their cause of closure, or which closed during state shutdowns and were discovered not to have reopened. Obviously a store that was already in trouble might use COVID-19 as an excuse for why they failed, but for the purpose of this article, I am taking it at face value. The situation was bad for everyone except the mass market, and I see no need to flog a corpse. Moreover, stores not closing specifically due to COVID surely were done no favors by the gigantic worldwide mess the pandemic caused.

AND NOW THE LIST.

Announced or Discovered Closed:
  1. Chain: GAME (40 stores in UK closing out of ~260)
  2. 1000 Lives Gaming (Hartsville, SC)
  3. 42 Ale House (St Francis, WI)
  4. ABC and Toy Zone (Chanhassen, MN) COVID
  5. Action Toys & Collectibles (Jacksonville, FL)
  6. Advantage Games (Northglenn, CO) COVID
  7. Aero Hobbies & Games (Santa Monica, CA)
  8. AK Comics (Beloit, WI)
  9. All About Books and Comics (Phoenix, AZ)
  10. Apache Comics (Mesa, AZ)
  11. Apex Gaming Center (Irving, TX)
  12. Baxter's Tempe SAK Gaming (Tempe, AZ) COVID
  13. Big Rapids Hobby Shop (Big Rapids, MI)
  14. Board Game Barrister (Greenfield, WI) Other locations remain open
  15. Boards & Beans (Regina, SK, Canada) COVID
  16. Boardwalk Hobby Shop (Mount Lookout, OH)
  17. Bonanza Books and Comics (Modesto, CA)
  18. CCG-Singles.com (Portland, OR)
  19. ChronoCade (Kalamazoo, MI)
  20. Coffee With Comics (Glendale, AZ)
  21. Collector's Edition (North Little Rock, AR)
  22. Comic Book ER (Cadillac, MI)
  23. The Comic Book Store (Little Rock, AR)
  24. Comics Dungeon (Seattle, WA) COVID
  25. Connected Gaming (Phoenix, AZ)
  26. Corner Comics (Kirkland, WA) COVID
  27. Critical Strike Games (Edmonds, WA)
  28. Dice Bag Games (Duncan, BC, Canada) COVID
  29. Dice & Donuts (Preston, Lancashire, UK)
  30. The Dragon and Meeple (Los Angeles, CA)
  31. Dragon's Keep Gaming and Miniatures (Portland, OR) COVID
  32. Dragon's Lair WarGames and Hobby Supplies (Shreveport, LA)
  33. Emerald Phoenix Comics (Aldergrove, BC, Canada) COVID
  34. Empire Collectibles (San Diego, CA) COVID
  35. Ever Green Game and Hobby (Missoula, MT) COVID
  36. Fables of Calhoun (Calhoun, GA) COVID
  37. Family Game Night (Orlando, FL)
  38. Fanatix (Dothan, AL) COVID
  39. Fight or Flight Comics (Raleigh, NC)
  40. Freaks & Geeks (Denton, TX) COVID
  41. G33k Out (Ocala, FL)
  42. Galaxy Comics (Somerset, KY)
  43. Game Empire (Pasadena, CA)
  44. Game Essentials (Superior, WI)
  45. Game Hunters (Frederick, MD)
  46. Game Kastle (Mountain View, CA) chain location
  47. Game Quest Games (St Croix Falls, WI)
  48. Game Quest Inc (Radford, VA)
  49. Gamer's Cache (Mountain Home, ID) COVID
  50. Gamer's Gambit (Danbury, CT)
  51. Gamers Vault (Montgomeryville, PA)
  52. Game Rules (Portland, OR)
  53. GameStreet (Mississauga, ON, Canada)
  54. Games N Go (Roseville, MN)
  55. The Gaming Keep (Hastings, MI) COVID
  56. Gaming on Grand (Escondido, CA)
  57. Gathering Games (Tampa, FL)
  58. G Cubed (Bunbury, Western Australia)
  59. Geekygami's (Bartlesville, OK)
  60. Geeky Villain (Everett, WA)
  61. Gerard's Gaming & LAN Center (Webster, TX)
  62. Hellbent 4 Cardboard (St Petersburg, FL)
  63. Henchmans Games (Swaffham, UK)
  64. Heroes 4 Sale (Southbury, CT)
  65. Hieroglyphic Games (Cincinnati, OH)
  66. Hidden Treasures Collectibles & Comics (Alexandria, MN) entire plaza destroyed by fire
  67. Hillside Games and Comics (Asheville, NC)
  68. Hobby Knights (West Bend, WI)
  69. Hungry Hippo Board Game Cafe (Decatur, IL)
  70. Hyperspace (Lakewood, CO)
  71. Imagine! Hobbies & Games (Sherwood, AR)
  72. Inconceivable Toys and Games (Monument, CO) COVID
  73. JJGames dot com (Englewood, CO)
  74. Joe Garage Games & More (Suwanee, GA)
  75. Kapow Comics (Cumming, GA)
  76. Killer Rabbit Comics & Games (Williston, VT)
  77. Lee's Comics (Mountain View, CA) COVID
  78. Mad Reads (Brighton, CO)
  79. Magic Mike's (Portland, OR)
  80. MaximuM Comics (Henderson, NV)
  81. Nerdcore Toys and Collectibles (Ellensburg, WA)
  82. Netherworld (Warrington, England, UK)
  83. The Nexus 419 (Rossford, OH)
  84. Now Playing Movies and Games (Tylertown, MS)
  85. NuGames (Eureka, CA) COVID
  86. Oblivion Games Inc (Mansfield, TX)
  87. OOP Games & Hobby (Lynnwood, WA)
  88. PlayLIVE Nation (Mission Viejo, CA) COVID, chain
  89. The Portland Game Store (Portland, OR) COVID
  90. Prime Time Gaming (Macon, GA)
  91. Purple Turtle Comics (Vallejo, CA)
  92. The Raven's Nest (Marietta, GA)
  93. Realms Comics & Games (North Richland Hills, TX)
  94. Revolution Video Games & Movies LLC (Tampa, FL)
  95. Rocket's Hideout (Baton Rouge, LA) COVID
  96. Rockhead's Comics & Games (Kenosha, WI)
  97. Rogue Nation Games (Richmond, BC Canada)
  98. Ronin Games (Castro Valley, CA)
  99. San Diego Comics (San Diego, CA) COVID
  100. Seann's Anime and Comics (Sylvania, OH)
  101. Sho'Nuff Comics (Tuscaloosa, AL) COVID
  102. Silver Key Lounge (Mesa, AZ) COVID, indefinite
  103. Skol Games (Eagan, MN)
  104. Splat! Gaming (Burleson, TX)
  105. The Storm Crow Tavern (Vancouver, BC, Canada) COVID
  106. Table Top Cafe (Edmonton, AB, Canada) COVID, consolidating into remaining location
  107. Teahouse Comics (Sandy Springs, GA)
  108. Tolly's Game Store & Lounge (West Jefferson, NC)
  109. Toys Cubed (Toronto, ON, Canada) Erin Mills Town Centre location
  110. Toys Cubed (Toronto, ON, Canada) Oshawa Centre location
  111. Toys Cubed (Toronto, ON, Canada) Scarborough Town Centre location
  112. Toys Cubed (Toronto, ON, Canada) Square One Centre location
  113. Toys Cubed (Toronto, ON, Canada) Vaughan Mills location
  114. Video Game Trader (Calgary, AB, Canada) COVID, 2 locations closing and 1 remains open
  115. Video Game Trader (Forest Lawn, AB, Canada) COVID, 2 locations closing and 1 remains open
  116. Vigilante Gastropub & Games (Austin, TX) COVID
  117. Villains Comics & Collectibles (Monroe, LA) COVID
  118. Wandering Havoc Games (Marysville, WA)
  119. Warcraft Games (Mission, BC, Canada)
  120. Weekend Warlords (Loughborough, England, UK)
  121. Weird Realms (Cleveland, OH) COVID
  122. Wizards Keep Games (Renton, WA)
  123. Yellow Jacket Comics (Tempe, AZ)
At the time of publication, the list had 123 entries representing 162 stores, totaling chains and multi-location closures as noted in their respective entries. Typically after these articles go up, I receive emails and messages about stores I missed, which I do appreciate as it helps make these articles as useful as they can be in terms of reference. The overwhelming lesson of this industry through almost half a year of COVID disruption has got to be something like "You can never assume general business conditions will remain as they are." I can tell you right now that DSG has suffered for not being able to employ our single biggest marketing draw, which is organized play. What happens to a store that has little else in its toolbox? It probably ends up on a list like the one in this article.

When you realize our industry has had to deal with the sudden near-total elimination of organized play and constant supply chain chaos, both factors completely upending even the most prudently planned square footage deployment (generally the most expensive and least changeable part of a store), it is not difficult to see how even a reasonably stable comic, video game, or hobby game store could find itself suddenly scratching the cloth. And in that unexpected time of peril, resources to weather the downturn may or may not be ready. DSG had a gigantic inventory to lean on. What if we didn't? What about any store that doesn't have a strategic reserve of some kind, whether it's cash, assets, favors to call in, some mixture of those, or what have you?

I have now seen enough evidentiary performance out of stores of different kinds and places that it has become fairly clear how a comic, video game, or hobby game store experiences wild success to where there is not only no danger, but considerable income for stakeholders. The answer to that question, which so many of us are so avidly chasing, is of course highly dependent on that store's specific physical, financial, and competitive circumstances! But once configured for maximum compatibility with those factors, things get somewhat more straightforward. The operational imperatives crystallize. Don't leave money on the table without getting something to make up for it. Don't spend good money chasing after bad. Don't let yourself get rolled by people who are out to gain at your expense. Get your home situation right. Most importantly, get your head right, because the action follows the thought, and the result follows the action. You will reap what you sow.

Get on with it.
Another problem I've noticed with a lot of these small Local Game Stores is that they don't have Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and Pay Per Click (PPC) when it comes to their e-commerce websites and given how low profit margins are they're unable to invest in the kind of money to even have SEO and PPC for their stores. They can't do it themselves and they can't pay any of their employees to do it for them. Online vendors like Card Kingdom have a REALLY good domination of SEO by spending thousands of dollars a month as they've dominated the Paper Magic marketing field from just a few thousand dollars a month. In other words they can sell card singles for two times as much as any Local Game Store (LGS) because these card singles show up in SEO.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

That list is just a fraction of the damage. There are 3 other stores in the Tampa / St. Pete area that have closed permanently that I know of. Four if you count the store opened by an 18 yr old in April that was closed by July. Paper magic has no future.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

Luckily for me none of the Local Game Stores in Kansas and Missouri have been closed permanently due to COVID-19. Given all the problems with the Sports Card Industry that led toward it's collapse in the 90's we're actually starting to see that in Paper Magic right now with Double Masters and other premium products. A lot of the lessons of how the Sports Card Industry failed are being neglected with Paper Magic because it's just one company producing the cards being Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro (technically Cartamundi) but those lessons are real. They're also quantifiable through other discontinued Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games and MTG's own past. The next few years should be interesting to say the least.
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Post by user_938036 » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Given all the problems with the Sports Card Industry that led toward it's collapse in the 90's we're actually starting to see that in Paper Magic right now with Double Masters and other premium products. A lot of the lessons of how the Sports Card Industry failed are being neglected with Paper Magic.
I want to ask everyone who mentions this what exactly you mean. From my light researcher of the collapse and revitalization of sports cards it looks like a concensus on its collapse can be boiled down to Too many cards were printed because fake demand via speculators. And its making a combake by producing a glut of various products through the year to keep hitting the market with fresh product.

When I look at that and compare it to magic it feels like they took those lessons to heart. They aren't printing too many cards as evidenced by the constant complaint that we aren't getting enough reprints. And they are bombarding the market with a constant flow of new product.

So please. What lessons do you people take from the sports card collapse that are actually at odds with current magic?

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Given all the problems with the Sports Card Industry that led toward it's collapse in the 90's we're actually starting to see that in Paper Magic right now with Double Masters and other premium products. A lot of the lessons of how the Sports Card Industry failed are being neglected with Paper Magic.
I want to ask everyone who mentions this what exactly you mean. From my light researcher of the collapse and revitalization of sports cards it looks like a concensus on its collapse can be boiled down to Too many cards were printed because fake demand via speculators. And its making a combake by producing a glut of various products through the year to keep hitting the market with fresh product.

When I look at that and compare it to magic it feels like they took those lessons to heart. They aren't printing too many cards as evidenced by the constant complaint that we aren't getting enough reprints. And they are bombarding the market with a constant flow of new product.

So please. What lessons do you people take from the sports card collapse that are actually at odds with current magic?
I'm not 100% sure all sports cards lessons can be applied to MTG but there must be SOME overlap. I view the demise of sports cards to be the rise of the digital age. Kids just have more interesting things to occupy their time. Even during the 80's baseball cards were becoming pretty "quaint". So we can sort of equate the Covid organized play ban, which creates a huge drop in demand for paper product, to the collapse of the sports cards market.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter WHY the demand is gone for your product, the important part is you aren't getting their money that way any more.
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Post by user_938036 » 3 years ago

robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
I'm not 100% sure all sports cards lessons can be applied to MTG but there must be SOME overlap. I view the demise of sports cards to be the rise of the digital age. Kids just have more interesting things to occupy their time. Even during the 80's baseball cards were becoming pretty "quaint". So we can sort of equate the Covid organized play ban, which creates a huge drop in demand for paper product, to the collapse of the sports cards market.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter WHY the demand is gone for your product, the important part is you aren't getting their money that way any more.
The digital age is actually why they had such a hard time coming back not why they fell. Their answer to this drop in interest was to produce new sets everytime their base lost interest. Topps produced more than two dozen different baseball card products specific to the 2015 season.

As for the effects of this global pandemic. We have no idea how its effecting magic sales and we won't until we hear this years Hasbro reports on earning and then we can only mostly speculate on how magic specifically was effected.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Given all the problems with the Sports Card Industry that led toward it's collapse in the 90's we're actually starting to see that in Paper Magic right now with Double Masters and other premium products. A lot of the lessons of how the Sports Card Industry failed are being neglected with Paper Magic.
I want to ask everyone who mentions this what exactly you mean. From my light researcher of the collapse and revitalization of sports cards it looks like a concensus on its collapse can be boiled down to Too many cards were printed because fake demand via speculators. And its making a combake by producing a glut of various products through the year to keep hitting the market with fresh product.
Correct. The Sports Card Industry back in the 90's wanted to increase their profits by artificially creating scarcity in very expensive cards and over-producing the 'common' sets which used to be the single set of cards which everyone traded on. By doing so, collectors could no longer find meaningful gems in sets (If you got an All-Star, it wasn't valuable because it wasn't the one in 500 cards randomly placed which had a piece of a game used glove or a personal autograph), making it no fun for them. I only dabbled a little bit into Sports Card collecting when I was a kid growing up in the late 80's and early 90's. One of my cousins used to be really heavy into it back in the day.

MTG Double Masters as well as many other Premium products have limited print runs to create that artificial scarcity with expensive cards that create short term supply so that when these cards spike in price again Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro as well as MTGFinance make more money off the demand for these cards by hoarding sealed Premium products to flip onto the Secondary Market to turn a profit later thus pricing out those who couldn't afford it. I assume that the Sports Card Industry back in the 90's were doing something similar by partaking in this kind of class warfare by pricing their own target demographic out of the market by catering to those who were wealthy and rich enough to afford it.

The marketing bubbles of other collectible items such as ty Beanie Babies show similar stories (which I used to collect as well but were no longer profitable due to how mass produced they were). Early collectors collect purely for the joy than the speculation. The supply of these items declined over time as most of them weren't kept in mint / near mint condition or they we're thrown out. The earliest versions were produced in limited supply due to low demand. Prices spike due to demand, then demand increases for new versions. Manufacturers increase production, speculators think that the new items will appreciate just like the old ones, and buyers stockpile them. Then they cash in and lower prices just to sell.
user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
As for the effects of this global pandemic. We have no idea how its effecting magic sales and we won't until we hear this years Hasbro reports on earning and then we can only mostly speculate on how magic specifically was effected.
Hasbro just recently released a report about this citing Total Gaming Sales were down 19% in 2nd Quarter 2020:

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/462 ... down-19-q2
ICv2 wrote:Sales in Hasbro's total gaming category were down 19% in Q2, the company said in its second quarter earnings report, released today. Sales in the category were $319.0 million for the quarter, down from $393.4 million in Q2 2019. Those sales include franchise brands Monopoly and Magic: The Gathering; sales in the Hasbro Gaming portfolio, which do not include those franchise brands, were up 11%, from $123.4 million in Q2 2019 to $137.0 million in Q2 2020.

Sales of Magic: The Gathering were down substantially in the quarter, due to tough comps and the move of Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths from Q2 to Q1 to beat manufacturing and shipping shutdowns (see "Hasbro's Total Gaming Business up 40% in Q1"). The half-year total gaming category, including Magic and Monopoly was up 4%.

What was selling in Q2 were the kinds of games Hasbro sells at mass merchants and online; global POS sales (reported by chains and online retailers) of the Hasbro Gaming portfolio, which doesn't include Magic and Monopoly, were up 50%, with Jenga, Connect 4, Battleship, Mousetrap, and Twister providing the biggest sales increases, according to the report. U.S. sales tracked above that global percentage, with POS sales of Hasbro Gaming up 70% for the period.

Hasbro CEO Brian Goldner did report some positive news on the Magic: The Gathering front in the conference call, revealing that the Ikoria set was the bestselling spring set in the history of the brand, and that the number of WPN stores was up by double digits in the quarter.

Hasbro's overall sales were down 29% in the quarter, to $860.3 million vs. (pro-forma) revenues of $1.2 billion in Q2 2019. The company lost $33.9 million, vs. (pro-forma) net losses of $42.6 million in Q2 2019.

COVID impacts were evident throughout the report, not only in the big increase in family games. Hasbro estimated that 30% of its global toy and game revenue was transacted online in Q2, a big jump over the normal percentage. Its supply chain from China improved, with Chinese factories catching up after their Q1 shutdowns, while factories in Ireland and the U.S. fell behind after two-month shutdowns. Production in those factories is not expected to catch up until late in Q3, assuming no more shutdowns.

The shutdown of the theatrical business hurt Hasbro's sales of licensed products, with the moves of many movie releases to which products were tied to later in the year or 2021, and the move of Trolls to streaming release from theatrical.

Goldner did draw attention to Hasbro's direct-to-consumer release of the $349.99 X-Men Legends Marvel's Sentinel, of which Hasbro has sold 11,700, with 28 days left in the campaign.
Last edited by Card Slinger J 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

Only 1 quarter was really covid affected on their report and it will only get worse moving forward with the ban on competitive play.
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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

robertleva wrote:
3 years ago
Only 1 quarter was really covid affected on their report and it will only get worse moving forward with the ban on competitive play.
I think that remains to be seen since we aren't even into September yet for Zendikar Rising Spoiler Season. A lot can happen in two months. Also I don't buy into the notion that Ikoria was the bestselling Spring set in the history of the Paper Magic brand since A LOT of people weren't able to make it up to their Local Game Stores to attend Pre-Release events for it due to COVID-19 let alone play In-Person Standard until the next rotation which ironically enough is with the release of Zendikar Rising. We only got a sneak peek of what the product will look like at San Diego Comic Con.

Local Game Stores (LGSs) work like you're stuck on a hamster wheel where owners and employees have to sell old sealed products with low EV before they can actually sell the newer sealed products with higher EV. "EV" meaning Expected Value which the higher the EV the more money LGSs make but the lower the EV the less money they make. Pushing power creep to sell cards can help increase EV for products that Local Game Stores need to sell yet it also comes at a high cost due to card bannings which causes a drop in the games' player base.

I'm starting to think that the low EV in Standard legal sets like Kaladesh, Aether Revolt, Amonkhet, Hour of Devastation, Ixalan, and Rivals of Ixalan was done on purpose in an attempt by Wizards of the Coast to bankrupt Local Game Stores. They only started getting their act together with Dominaria onward especially with reprinting the Shocklands again however they seem to be creatively bankrupt by relying more on reprints to sell Standard legal sets instead of giving themselves enough time to get their creative juices flowing.
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Post by user_938036 » 3 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote:
3 years ago
Local Game Stores (LGSs) work like you're stuck on a hamster wheel where owners and employees have to sell old sealed products with low EV before they can actually sell the newer sealed products with higher EV. "EV" meaning Expected Value which the higher the EV the more money LGSs make but the lower the EV the less money they make. Pushing power creep to sell cards can help increase EV for products that Local Game Stores need to sell yet it also comes at a high cost due to card bannings which causes a drop in the games' player base.

I'm starting to think that the low EV in Standard legal sets like Kaladesh, Aether Revolt, Amonkhet, Hour of Devastation, Ixalan, and Rivals of Ixalan was done on purpose in an attempt by Wizards of the Coast to bankrupt Local Game Stores. They only started getting their act together with Dominaria onward especially with reprinting the Shocklands again however they seem to be creatively bankrupt by relying more on reprints to sell Standard legal sets instead of giving themselves enough time to get their creative juices flowing.
I call in to question that LGS's profits are tied to set EV in the way you describe. I don't have anything to back this up but it feels wrong. If you have something to support this concept I would love to see it and will adjust my outlook on this topic.

As for the low EV of standard you speak of I am forced to question what you even mean. Do you mean on release weekend? 1 week out? 2 weeks? 2 months? 5 months? 1 year?

Because this is so confusing I looked into it and am even more baffled. The set you tout as the turn around had an asbymal EV 2 months after its release at $2.88 while the first set you call out for having bad EV Kaladesh, crushes every set released since then with an EV 2 months after release of $3.67. If you meant something else by EV besides the expected value of opening a pack. Then please elaborate.

So you don't have to do the leg work of tracking down EVs; this is 2 months out for every standard set since Kaladesh:

Kaladesh $3.67 Aether Revolt $3.39 Amonkhet $2.82 Hour $2.27 Ixalan $3.28 Rivals $2.78
Dominaria $2.88 Guilds $3.23 Allegiance $3.27 War $3.66 Eldraine $3.60 Death $2.82 Ikoria $2.87

2 months may see arbitrary but it seemed like a reasonable place to look at as that is when the set should be ending its hype days. Enough time has passed so innitial demand is sated and the next set is just around the corner. Other than presales, which can hit ridiculous numbers as $7 or $15 a pack like Kaladesh did, most sets are fairly flat in their EV.

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Post by Card Slinger J » 3 years ago

user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
As for the low EV of standard you speak of I am forced to question what you even mean. Do you mean on release weekend? 1 week out? 2 weeks? 2 months? 5 months? 1 year?
About a year since people like to buy out sealed booster boxes of Standard sets in order to wait for the EV to spike so they can try to break even by flipping them on the Secondary Market. At least they used to before it was no longer profitable when Wizards of the Coast got rid of MSRP by forcing retailers to sell boxes at $80 instead of $100+. Premium products like Double Masters are an exception since the EV is always going to be higher due to reprints on demand. Most Standard legal sets don't contain many reprints unless it's in a Core Set where you're only getting 1/3rd of the amount of reprints from a Premium product.
user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
Because this is so confusing I looked into it and am even more baffled. The set you tout as the turn around had an asbymal EV 2 months after its release at $2.88 while the first set you call out for having bad EV Kaladesh, crushes every set released since then with an EV 2 months after release of $3.67. If you meant something else by EV besides the expected value of opening a pack. Then please elaborate.
Expected Value is the total value of cards in a set overall not by opening booster packs. It's dependent on what cards are highly valued in a specific set. So If you bought a booster box and managed to pull all the highly valuable cards out of it then you're likely to get your money back from buying the box even more so If any of the valuable cards you pull are in foil. However the odds in doing so aren't as easy as evidenced by box opening YouTube videos. People like Rudy from Alpha Investments would open boxes of the recent Ravnica sets just to see how many Shock Lands he'd pull for his Patrons on YouTube.
user_938036 wrote:
3 years ago
So you don't have to do the leg work of tracking down EVs; this is 2 months out for every standard set since Kaladesh:

Kaladesh $3.67 Aether Revolt $3.39 Amonkhet $2.82 Hour $2.27 Ixalan $3.28 Rivals $2.78
Dominaria $2.88 Guilds $3.23 Allegiance $3.27 War $3.66 Eldraine $3.60 Death $2.82 Ikoria $2.87

2 months may see arbitrary but it seemed like a reasonable place to look at as that is when the set should be ending its hype days. Enough time has passed so innitial demand is sated and the next set is just around the corner. Other than presales, which can hit ridiculous numbers as $7 or $15 a pack like Kaladesh did, most sets are fairly flat in their EV.
Are those EV's based on overall card values in the expansions or just from opening one or two booster packs? EV is measured by mapping all the most sought after cards by adding them up to compare it with all the cards you pulled from booster boxes and you go from there. If you made less money from opening compared to what the set is actually worth then you got hosed. A lot of the older Paper Magic sets have a much higher EV due to how rare they are on the Secondary Market not to mention the Reserve List helping to increase their value as well. This is why I only purchase card singles since sealed product is too expensive.
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