A very frustrating pre-release.

[RxPhantom]

First, let me start by saying that I don't think I'm the greatest MtG mind, nor am I full of myself, but for the sake of brevity and conciseness, I'm going to be plainspoken and blunt. Also, I've been playing since '96, have a firm grasp on the rules, and because I'm a father and a pharmacist, I'm pretty good at explaining complex things to lay people without being condescending. Most players at this store are new, with a few having played for several years. With that out of the way...

A guy really chapped my ass at prerelease last night. I've only played at this brand new store a couple of times, but I have the most experience and often act as the de facto judge. I had no less than three rules disputes with this guy, and each time he was belligerent, petulant, and most importantly, incorrect. All four of his rounds went to turns, and he never got to a third game in any round.

Situation #1: My match was over, and the owner asked me to keep an eye on this guy's match, which just went to turns. Dude plays Minion's Return on a token creature. I politely say, "that's not gonna work like you want it to." He asks why, I say that the token will cease to exist when it hits the graveyard. He forcefully reads the card to me, insisting that it will return to the battlefield. I tell him the token ceases to exist before Minion's Return can bring it back. He loudly insists he knows the rules of Magic, and eventually relents after another player backs me up.*

Situation #2: Last round is against me, and we didn't even make it to game two! I have an Ichthyomorphosis on his Nyxborn Colossus. I then cast Protean Thaumaturge, followed by Tymaret, Chosen from Death which triggers the Thaumaturge. I choose to have it become a copy of the Colossus. Of course, he insists that the creature becomes an 0/1 fish. I explain that Clone effects copy the card itself, regardless of auras, etc. He insists that Colossus isn't even on the battlefield. A gatherer ruling wasn't good enough, and he just keeps angrily reading Ichthyomorphosis over and over again in an effort to prove his point. Another player backs me up, and we go on, but dude is mad now and is acting like I'm cheating him at every turn.

Situation #3: He plays The Binding of the Titans. On the second trigger, he targets two creatures in my graveyard and I eat them with Tymaret in response. He says "I don't think you can do that, but ok." I tell him that it's on the stack and I can respond to it. He then spends the rest of the match pouting.

I could tell things weren't computing for him when I would mention the stack or state-based effects. Anyway, situation #2 kept us from having enough time to finish game 1, but the game would've been mine if I had just one more turn. My problem comes down to this: his slow play and inability to grok the rules potentially cost all of his opponents packs. At the same time, I don't want to be too much of a rules lawyer/tryhard at a casual event, but I was very, very frustrated and tilted by the end.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice as to how to proceed in the future, I'd appreciate it.

*This amounted to outside help from me, and I shouldn't have said anything until the token died.

[The Fluff]

At case #2. I'm not adept at rules either, but that situation can confuse newbies. One way to explain it simply is that the thaumaturge is not enchanted with morphosis, so it is a 6/7.

[pokken]

I've been through this with new/raw players are prerelease and you just gotta call a judge, if they don't have someone who can act as an impartial judge something is wrong - prereleases have lots of weird rules interactions because people tend to play really bad cards and there's a new set with new mechanics. You need to have a judge you can call.

[RxPhantom]

At case #2. I'm not adept at rules either, but that situation can confuse newbies. One way to explain it simply is that the thaumaturge is not enchanted with morphosis, so it is a 6/7.

Oh how I tried. I said that exact thing. He kept looking up rulings for Ichthyomorphosis itself, insisting that it overwrote the creature's native types, etc. That's true, I told him, but also that clones just don't work like that. Also, from what I'm told, this guy's not exactly a newbie. Regardless, he got too tilted too quickly. I don't expect everyone to take what I say as gospel just because I'm the most experienced in the room, but this dude didn't even want to listen, got hostile and defensive, and it almost made me lose my cool.

I've been through this with new/raw players are prerelease and you just gotta call a judge, if they don't have someone who can act as an impartial judge something is wrong - prereleases have lots of weird rules interactions because people tend to play really bad cards and there's a new set with new mechanics. You need to have a judge you can call.

This store's only been open for three months, and this was the store's first prerelease. No real judges yet. Like I said, I'm the de facto judge when I'm there. The owner, while very cool, doesn't know a lot about Magic, and the other players with a solid grasp on the rules will still often defer to me. Last night, with this guy in particular, I needed one or two of these other players to corroborate what I was saying for him to relent.

I never sought it out, but I'm happy to answer judge calls if needed. Most of them I can answer. I don't like to tell them just that they're wrong or right; I want them to understand so they're learning going forward. If I can't answer, we do some research together. This guy just got so hostile so quickly.

[The Fluff]

Also, from what I'm told, this guy's not exactly a newbie.

thought he's a newbie, because he think tokens would return.

anyway, the store needs a judge, espescially now since it seems that person who does not know much about game rules is a regular at the store.

[RxPhantom]

Also, from what I'm told, this guy's not exactly a newbie.

thought he's a newbie, because he think tokens would return.

anyway, the store needs a judge, espescially now since it seems that person who does not know much about game rules is a regular at the store.

I assumed the same based on his behavior and his frequent clashes with the rules. Now that I think about it, it was the owner who told me he was "a pretty good player," but the owner doesn't know a lot about Magic. It makes me wonder what other rules wonkiness he got away with that night. It was so hard to remain calm because he kept repeating "I know the rules." I just thought to myself "clearly you don't," but didn't say it aloud because it wouldn't be constructive.

[The Fluff]

ah, I see.. so it's the owner who thought he was a good player. The token returning belief can actually be put into this other thread. Well, I have nothing more to say... goodluck, and hopefully have a long patience with that person.

[KarnDaddy]

somebody needs to sit him down and explain the stack. I played for a year or two and was struggling before someone told me 'in general, the last effect put on the stack is the first to resolve', and I was a much better player after that

[Mapccu]

The store owner or tournament organizer should step in, at the very least regarding slow play. I understand prerelease events are a busy day for stores, so you hire extra staff specifically for situations like this.

My LGS is actually great at stepping in on these situations so I'd probably bring it up to the store owner. We had one guy who, although had a great rules knowledge and was a good player, was an absolute jerk to EVERYONE. After ~15 warnings over several months the store owner said you're done. I don't want you hear and neither does anyone else. You're toxic and driving patrons away. Dude threw a hissy fit because he spent money at the shop just like everyone else, but it was the eight call in the shop owners part. Plus as a show of thanks several of us bought a bunch product that night to make up the difference over the next few weeks from being down a regular. Great community effort.

[motleyslayer]

I think what stands out to me are 2 things.

(1) The fact that all of his rounds went to time without a game 3.I feel that maybe say he is intentionally slow playing is a bit extreme but when a person goes to time this many times, it's clearly not his opponents' faults. Maybe speak t the owner about having someone watch them to see if there's anything out of the ordinary. There have been a few players in my area who people got sick of playing against since they played so slowly. It got to the point that people just didn't wanna play against them, so if they ever got paired against them, people would just concede. those players eventually just got sick of not being able to actually play against people and stopped showing up. This is obviously really extreme and not something I'd really recommend but it worked

(2) The second issue is that the person got upset when people tried to correct them and seemed very confrontational/seemed to act childish. The only thing I can really suggest is possibly speaking to the store owner about that player's behaviour. They seem like they won't listen to anyone who wouldn't have any kind of authority or power to do anything about their behaviour, so there's no point really trying to do anything about it yourself. You'd just be wasting your energy. If the store owner feels that something needs to be done about the player, than they should probably be the ones to make the decision on what to do.

as much as players like this is annoying, they're kind of hard to deal with