Theros: Beyond Death Leak (flavor)

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Caranthir
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Post by Caranthir » 3 months ago

As you might have noticed, there was a THB leak tonight.

viewtopic.php?f=8&p=45292#p45292

Some flavor findings:
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- Sagas are back
- The Underworld seem to have also nice looking parts (Ilysia, apparently play on Elysian Fields)
- there seem to be non-feral minotaurs (the Skophos polis, Warden of the Chained, Dreamshaper Shaman), unlike the Rageblood horde, branching into green.
- Elspeth bears the moniker "Sun's Nemesis"
- an "escape" mechanic allowing things to be cast from graveyard for the price of exiling other cards from graveyard (Elspeth has it as well)
- Phenax used to be a mortal, who escaped the Underworld
- Ashiok is back (as rather expected)
- there seems to be a new god or something (the Furious Rise card "Klethys set out to mend the destiny of Theros, her fury guiding every stitch." with a giant figure above the land.

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Post by CalebLost » 3 months ago

So if the trend of 3 PW per set, 2 returning 1 new keeps going we can go for Elspeth+Ashiok and a new one
Saga are a hit for Theros, they have great flavor for the legends of the plane and works well with devotion
Due to the common enchant cycle (if it will be a complete cycle) we can bet on Nylea, Erebos and Thassa being back
The new god (Klothys it seems) may be the new GR that filled Xenagos slot
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Post by Odin_ » 3 months ago

Caranthir wrote:
3 months ago

- there seems to be a new god or something (the Furious Rise card "Klethys set out to mend the destiny of Theros, her fury guiding every stitch." with a giant figure above the land.
Not sure about new god. Photo is very unclear and from it looks like night sky and stars are missing. Looks more like Atlas or something similar. Although on Omens we can see that there are less stars on gods.

More interesting is that Nyx/Ilysia are going to be directly accessible for everyone from Theros and main plot will be solving this issue.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

CalebLost wrote:
3 months ago
So if the trend of 3 PW per set, 2 returning 1 new keeps going we can go for Elspeth+Ashiok and a new one
Saga are a hit for Theros, they have great flavor for the legends of the plane and works well with devotion
Due to the common enchant cycle (if it will be a complete cycle) we can bet on Nylea, Erebos and Thassa being back
The new god (Klothys it seems) may be the new GR that filled Xenagos slot
Ehh maybe not, they have enough already existing walkers for the storyline (similar to BtZ or Ravnica 3) they might not need one.

Odin_ wrote:
3 months ago
More interesting is that Nyx/Ilysia are going to be directly accessible for everyone from Theros and main plot will be solving this issue.
Ummm where did you get that?

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Post by Atraxian » 3 months ago

A small addendum on Espeth:
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if you look the engravings on the wall on the left you have her stabbing Xenagos with her lance. On the right you have her doing the same thing to Heliod with her new spear! (see the leaf crown on the head).
This might probably spoil a big part of the plot if it means that she escapes the underworld and kills Heliod.

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Post by Caranthir » 3 months ago

Atraxian wrote:
3 months ago
A small addendum on Espeth:
Spoiler
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if you look the engravings on the wall on the left you have her stabbing Xenagos with her lance. On the right you have her doing the same thing to Heliod with her new spear! (see the leaf crown on the head).
This might probably spoil a big part of the plot if it means that she escapes the underworld and kills Heliod.
The new moniker would definitely point in that way. And I love how even her statue depicts the crack in her chest armor where Heliod struck and slain her at the end of Theros.
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Post by Odin_ » 3 months ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
Odin_ wrote:
3 months ago
More interesting is that Nyx/Ilysia are going to be directly accessible for everyone from Theros and main plot will be solving this issue.
Ummm where did you get that?
We have Escape as new mechanic not only on Espeth, we have Nyx/Underworld lands, we have gods from standard Theros (visible on Omens), we have Nyxborn as R/W colors, we have Underworld Dreams and Ashiok. Also flavor from Furious rise ("Klethys set out to mend the destiny of Theros, her fury guiding every stitch.") points us this way.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

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Looking at Warden of the Chained maybe Klethys and other forgotten gods are imprisoned in the underworld.

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Post by Caranthir » 3 months ago

5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
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Looking at Warden of the Chained maybe Klethys and other forgotten gods are imprisoned in the underworld.
Just realized it is Klothys, not Klethys. Not-so-subtle reference to Clotho, the youngest of the Moirai (aka Fates). Also, destiny (of Theros), its mending and stitches are mentioned.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 2 months ago

I was right, from the mechanics video looks like we have a "new" RG is Klothys god of destiny who was in the underworld.

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Post by Odin_ » 2 months ago

All the flavor will be on cards. So don't expect anything in M:tG line. Maybe only as a D&D campaign.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 months ago

Caranthir wrote:
3 months ago
5colorsrainbow wrote:
3 months ago
Spoiler
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Looking at Warden of the Chained maybe Klethys and other forgotten gods are imprisoned in the underworld.
Just realized it is Klothys, not Klethys. Not-so-subtle reference to Clotho, the youngest of the Moirai (aka Fates). Also, destiny (of Theros), its mending and stitches are mentioned.
Yep. I like the design, even if it doesn't have trample. It's not Overwheelming Stampede by any means, but the idea that each mana dork now adds +1/+1 to all creatures sounds cool. And just think of how fun this would be with the deities and lieges from Shadowmoor.
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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 1 month ago

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-01-10

It's the whole story

But there's a kicker part
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ashiok planeswalked to learn about the phyrexians somthat means ashiok went to new phyrexia

It's happening the phyrexians the next villains and ashiok probably gonna ruin everything for Karns plan

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Post by The N82O Molecule » 1 month ago

[mention]CommanderMaster999[/mention]

I saw this to and immediately got excited.

is ashiok a good guy? since he basically helped Elspeth (through nightmares non the less). I mean two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. wait, you can only run into a forest halfway.

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Post by Dusk » 1 month ago

Ashiok thrives on fear and on causing nightmares. A world filled with unspeakable horrors is like a candy store for him. That said, I wouldn't call Ashiok evil, more chaotic neutral. Yes, he sows fear because he believes it to be the great equalizer, as we all fear something, and to further his own plans. Ashiok played some role in dealing with Bolas during War of the Spark, meaning he will work towards the greater good if it suits him. There is a lot we don't know about Ashiok that I would really like to find out.
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Post by RedCheese » 1 month ago

ohhh Ashiok going after the Real living Nighmares, the true villains of the series.

Heliod was so pathetic losing like that and begging :/

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Post by TheMagicWord » 1 month ago

I thought it was cheesy that the summary skimmed over the "fights" elspeth and calix had, as well as her dialog with Daxos. I wonder why this is the route they chose for the story. I hope web stories come back next set.
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Post by Drusus » 1 month ago

Elspeth showed how belief manifests. Even though she lied about her shadowspear being the real Khrusor, people bought her lie and placed their faith in it. If Heliod's actual Khrusor becoming a fake and Elspeth's fake becoming real is a possibility, then the position of Klothys is the easiest to replace. Her acting as the seal but away from mortal eyes and thus creating doubt for mortals means that more mortals like Xenagos could be a thing.

This also holds true for Heliod as if there is no Sun God, then faith wanes, which creates doubt and people will look to anything represent that missing part of the pantheon. And its not unlikely as Kruphix has mentioned in the past of mortals forgetting previous iterations of gods.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 month ago

Dusk wrote:
1 month ago
Ashiok thrives on fear and on causing nightmares. A world filled with unspeakable horrors is like a candy store for him. That said, I wouldn't call Ashiok evil, more chaotic neutral. Yes, he sows fear because he believes it to be the great equalizer, as we all fear something, and to further his own plans. Ashiok played some role in dealing with Bolas during War of the Spark, meaning he will work towards the greater good if it suits him. There is a lot we don't know about Ashiok that I would really like to find out.
Ashiok pronouns are they/them.

I defiantly see Ashiok being the reason Phyrexia spreads. Ashiok loves to sow fear and nightmares and pyrexia are living nightmares. Forsaken also set Teferi, Ajani and Karn that way too so I defiantly see them being set up as the next big plot line.

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Post by Zazdor » 1 month ago

Is Elspeth only influencing the devotion of the dead? The summary has her confront Heliod as she works to escape the Underworld--this suggests that it is the devotion of the dead that weakens Khrusor. Or is there some suggestion that her lie about the weapon reaches the land of the living?

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Post by Jace » 1 month ago

TheMagicWord wrote:
1 month ago
I thought it was cheesy that the summary skimmed over the "fights" elspeth and calix had, as well as her dialog with Daxos. I wonder why this is the route they chose for the story. I hope web stories come back next set.
Of all the stories that needed web fiction or an ebook, this was it. Sorry, but for me it's too late. I am retired as a Vorthos after this set.

I found is most disappointing to not have any dialogue between Daxos and Elspeth, nothing about their reunion or relationship and no explanation as to her incentives for departing Theros after getting a happy ending with Daxos as a demigod and her escaping with Erebos's gratitude. Let alone Daxos and what transpired with his mother, etc.

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Post by Drusus » 1 month ago

Zazdor wrote:
1 month ago
Is Elspeth only influencing the devotion of the dead? The summary has her confront Heliod as she works to escape the Underworld--this suggests that it is the devotion of the dead that weakens Khrusor. Or is there some suggestion that her lie about the weapon reaches the land of the living?
Seems like it was just the dead. As the entire time she slaying and making her proclamations, she was still trapped in the land of the dead. So the dead could have devotion if motivated.
Jace wrote:
1 month ago
TheMagicWord wrote:
1 month ago
I thought it was cheesy that the summary skimmed over the "fights" elspeth and calix had, as well as her dialog with Daxos. I wonder why this is the route they chose for the story. I hope web stories come back next set.
Of all the stories that needed web fiction or an ebook, this was it. Sorry, but for me it's too late. I am retired as a Vorthos after this set.

I found is most disappointing to not have any dialogue between Daxos and Elspeth, nothing about their reunion or relationship and no explanation as to her incentives for departing Theros after getting a happy ending with Daxos as a demigod and her escaping with Erebos's gratitude. Let alone Daxos and what transpired with his mother, etc.
Yeah they really dropped ball.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 month ago

Zazdor wrote:
1 month ago
Is Elspeth only influencing the devotion of the dead? The summary has her confront Heliod as she works to escape the Underworld--this suggests that it is the devotion of the dead that weakens Khrusor. Or is there some suggestion that her lie about the weapon reaches the land of the living?
Could be the dead who saw also escaped and spread the tales to the living.

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