Token Generators.

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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

Just a few fun cards that create tokens of various sorts, critique and comments are most welcome. :grin:

Corpse Rack
4
Artifact (Rare)
Whenever a nontoken creature dies, put a storage counter on Corpse Rack.
2B, T, Remove a storage counter from Corpse Rack: Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.

Card I created an aeon ago, a fun little card for zombie decks to reward you for killing creatures. Good anti-wrath card, but not to powerful.

Appeal to a Higher Power
6WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Appeal to a Higher Power costs 3 less to cast if you control three or fewer creatures and have less than 10 life.
You gain 10 life, shuffle your graveyard into your library, and create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
Exile Appeal to a Higher Power.
SPOILER
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Change Log:

Edit 1: Removed cantrip effect as it was overkill.

Edit 2: Changed from Old Version to make it more balanced.

Appeal to a Higher Power (old version)
3WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
You gain 10 life, shuffle your graveyard into your library, create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
Exile Appeal to a Higher Power.
Created shortly after Dominaria, I keep alternately thinking it is to powerful or just powerful enough. Idea is to help the player get back in the game if they are close to getting wiped out in a commander game. Cost may be on the low side.

Kiora's Calling
5UU
Sorcery (Uncommon)
Buyback 3GG
Create a 6/6 blue Kraken creature token.

Simple and to the point. Of color buyback because while blue is the Kraken color, green is, and always has been the creature color. So it felt right to add some green to make the effect repeatable.

Star Priest
1B
Creature - Human Spellshaper (Rare)
1/1
Sacrifice a nonhorror creature, T: Add CB.
3BBB, T, discard a card: Create a 7/7 black Horror creature token named "Cosmic Horror" with first strike and "At the beginning of your upkeep pay 3BBB, or Sacrifice Cosmic Horror and it deals 7 damage to you.".
SPOILER
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Changelog:

Added mana ability to help pay for the tokens upkeep cost.
Created as an early side effect of looking for ways to get around the reserved list, even though Cosmic Horror is not on said reserved list. Heavily inspired by the token generating spellshapers of Time Spiral block.

Dragon's Hoard
2R
Sorcery (Uncommon)
Create three Treasure tokens (they are artifacts with "T, sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")

Pretty self explanatory, created after seeing the preview of Rapacious Dragon. Fits right in with the other red mana generators as well as the treasure mechanic found in the color.

Saproling Hive
GG
Enchantment (Rare)
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 green Saproling token creature.
SPOILER
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Changelog:

Reduced casting cost by 1.
Simple and elegant, and right up green's alley. May want to reduce the casting cost or have it trigger on each upkeep instead of just yours. Not certain yet.

Comments, critique, contributions? All welcome. :grin:
Last edited by Krishnath 4 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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void_nothing
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Post by void_nothing » 4 years ago

Really nice stuff. Corpse Rack's mana cost could probably come down if it's making you pay full Scathe Zombies price AND a tap; at that cost it seems to me like you could do away with even having a T. Appeal to a Higher Power should probably have more specific flavor given it's legendary - "Birth of Serra's Realm"? Kiora's calling is a great use of buyback as a pure mana sink and not some crazy value engine, I'm reminded mostly of Call the Skybreaker. Star Priest is perfect, Dragon's Hoard is great, Saproling Hive... could definitely cost 1G if you want to make it pushed, I'm surprised this exact card doesn't exist and it's a great throwback to Weatherlight Saga-era "Saproling ___" token makers.
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Post by kwanyeegor-ii » 4 years ago

I wanna say, my favorites are appeal to a higher power and kiora's calling
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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
4 years ago
Really nice stuff. Corpse Rack's mana cost could probably come down if it's making you pay full Scathe Zombies price AND a tap; at that cost it seems to me like you could do away with even having a T. Appeal to a Higher Power should probably have more specific flavor given it's legendary - "Birth of Serra's Realm"? Kiora's calling is a great use of buyback as a pure mana sink and not some crazy value engine, I'm reminded mostly of Call the Skybreaker. Star Priest is perfect, Dragon's Hoard is great, Saproling Hive... could definitely cost 1G if you want to make it pushed, I'm surprised this exact card doesn't exist and it's a great throwback to Weatherlight Saga-era "Saproling ___" token makers.
Corpse Rack is intended to be slow to prevent it from comboing with mass removal spells so you end up with a full board of creatures while your opponents have nothing, thus the tap. But I agree, the cost could probably go down a bit. Maybe changing the activated mana cost to 1B instead.

The flavor of Appeal to a Higher Power is that the hero are on their last legs and about to be overwhelmed by the forces of darkness, when they make a plea to whatever god or goddess that is appropriate for the setting, and they respond with "the cavalry" so to speak. Just prior to the climatic battle that turns the tide and allows the heroes to prevail.

I was thinking the same in regards to Saproling Hive.
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 4 years ago

Dragon's Hoard is an instant metalcraft, too.

Cards like Saproling Hive increasingly belong in white. The suggested card is still fine.

I like cards like Star Priest, but the creature design of the Horror is outdated for a reason, so making it a token doesn't improve the concept. It would be kinda cool if the spellshaper itself also had the ability to generate mana to satisfy the Horror token though e. g. "Sacrifice a non-Horror creature: Add CB." This would add another layer to the concept.

Buyback is a bad mechanic more often than not. Kiora's Calling is alright, but mostly by virtue of not actually using the mechanic until you reach twelve mana. The use of green here feels better. I remember having done a similar thing with replicate at a smaller scale.

Corpse Rack actually feels like an older design. I appreciate that it's actually an artifact that taps and meaningfully so.

I feel that the cantrip in Appeal to Higher Power is undeserved. You could easily use other more white effects here to get past card disadvantage - and you already consider this at the top end of power level, so I suggest removing it. It appears off.

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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

SecretInfiltrator wrote:
4 years ago
Dragon's Hoard is an instant metalcraft, too.

Cards like Saproling Hive increasingly belong in white. The suggested card is still fine.

I like cards like Star Priest, but the creature design of the Horror is outdated for a reason, so making it a token doesn't improve the concept. It would be kinda cool if the spellshaper itself also had the ability to generate mana to satisfy the Horror token though e. g. "Sacrifice a non-Horror creature: Add CB." This would add another layer to the concept.

Buyback is a bad mechanic more often than not. Kiora's Calling is alright, but mostly by virtue of not actually using the mechanic until you reach twelve mana. The use of green here feels better. I remember having done a similar thing with replicate at a smaller scale.

Corpse Rack actually feels like an older design. I appreciate that it's actually an artifact that taps and meaningfully so.

I feel that the cantrip in Appeal to Higher Power is undeserved. You could easily use other more white effects here to get past card disadvantage - and you already consider this at the top end of power level, so I suggest removing it. It appears off.
I think you are right regarding the Star Priest, it was mostly made to have a fun way to make tokens out of old creatures. It was definitely designed to have a "mythos" feel, but adding your suggested mana effect would definitely keep with said feel.

As for Appeal to a Higher Power, I think you may be right.

I will edit my above post to include some of the suggested changes (and putting a change log for each card in spoilers after said card).
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Post by spacemonaut » 4 years ago

Man, I'm wavering a lot on Appeal to a Higher Power as well. If we look at other white effects that create angels we can make these comparisons:
  • Decree of Justice gives me three angels at X=3 for {10}WW.
  • Entreat the Angels gives me three angels at X=3 for 6WWW (or 3W at Miracle, but that's hard to judge).
  • Devout Invocation costs 6W and requires me to tap down three creatures. Honestly I'll probably be tapping down five though, so let's say I get five angels for this.
Appeal's ahead on rate of two of these but slightly behind Devout Invocation. But the angels it gives me have Vigilance and that's nothing to sneeze at. And it gives me 10 life and restocks my library. It is a Legendary Sorcery but that doesn't necessarily let us go hog wild with power.

The thing that alarms me most though is that for 6 mana at white I can now deal 12 flying damage next turn and still have three powerful flying blockers, regardless of any other creatures I might have around. Standard is meant to win around turn 7, but being able to do that with one spell out of nowhere seems like too much for a CMC 6 spell to do.

Sometimes when a card's power is hard to judge, it's because it's doing too many disparate things, and I think that's the case here. It's both very aggressive ("finish the game now" via a host of angels that can very safely attack) and defensive ("hold out for later" via restocking and lifegain). White can be either, but a card doing both things at once via totally different effects can make for a dischordant design.

Let's pick one: what if we focus on its aggressive behaviour?

Some milestones: Cards that say "I'm probably now going to win, not just yet, but in a couple of turns" tend to get reserved for CMC 7 or 8 (see Ezuri's Predation and Army of the Damned), while cards that say "I'm definitely about to win unless you have an answer right now" get reserved for CMC 9+ (see Rise of the Dark Realms and In Garruk's Wake). Appeal is in that CMC 7-8 mark, so let's go for that.

What if we do the following instead, keeping the rescue flavour but mechanising it for an imminent decisive victory?

Serra's Rescue 4WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance. Creatures you control gain indestructible until the start of your next turn. Exile Serra's Rescue.

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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
4 years ago
Man, I'm wavering a lot on Appeal to a Higher Power as well. If we look at other white effects that create angels we can make these comparisons:
  • Decree of Justice gives me three angels at X=3 for {10}WW.
  • Entreat the Angels gives me three angels at X=3 for 6WWW (or 3W at Miracle, but that's hard to judge).
  • Devout Invocation costs 6W and requires me to tap down three creatures. Honestly I'll probably be tapping down five though, so let's say I get five angels for this.
Appeal's ahead on rate of two of these but slightly behind Devout Invocation. But the angels it gives me have Vigilance and that's nothing to sneeze at. And it gives me 10 life and restocks my library. It is a Legendary Sorcery but that doesn't necessarily let us go hog wild with power.

The thing that alarms me most though is that for 6 mana at white I can now deal 12 flying damage next turn and still have three powerful flying blockers, regardless of any other creatures I might have around. Standard is meant to win around turn 7, but being able to do that with one spell out of nowhere seems like too much for a CMC 6 spell to do.

Sometimes when a card's power is hard to judge, it's because it's doing too many disparate things, and I think that's the case here. It's both very aggressive ("finish the game now" via a host of angels that can very safely attack) and defensive ("hold out for later" via restocking and lifegain). White can be either, but a card doing both things at once via totally different effects can make for a dischordant design.

Let's pick one: what if we focus on its aggressive behaviour?

Some milestones: Cards that say "I'm probably now going to win, not just yet, but in a couple of turns" tend to get reserved for CMC 7 or 8 (see Ezuri's Predation and Army of the Damned), while cards that say "I'm definitely about to win unless you have an answer right now" get reserved for CMC 9+ (see Rise of the Dark Realms and In Garruk's Wake). Appeal is in that CMC 7-8 mark, so let's go for that.

What if we do the following instead, keeping the rescue flavour but mechanising it for an imminent decisive victory?

Serra's Rescue 4WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance. Creatures you control gain indestructible until the start of your next turn. Exile Serra's Rescue.
I agree with you to a point, the idea of the card was to to function as a "catch up" card for commander (which, to be honest, most of my designs are for as that is the format I primarily play). The problem is how to avoid it becoming a "win more" card, which is difficult to avoid.

Perhaps if I increased its regular cost, with a cost reduction if certain conditions are met (say controlling 3 or fewer creatures and have less than 10 life), which would avoid that issue. Something like:

Appeal to a Higher Power
6WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Appeal to a Higher Power costs 3 less to cast if you control three or fewer creatures and have less than 10 life.
You gain 10 life, shuffle your graveyard into your library, and create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
Exile Appeal to a Higher Power.

Alternately, literally make in impossible to cast unless it's conditions are met.

Appeal to a Higher Power
3WWW
Legendary Sorcery (Mythic)
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
You can only cast Appeal to a Higher Power if you control three or fewer creatures and have less than 10 life.
You gain 10 life, shuffle your graveyard into your library, and create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
Exile Appeal to a Higher Power.

Thoughts?
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Post by NUMBERS » 4 years ago

I think I like the way Appeal to a Higher Power is heading design wise, as it being Legendary and requiring you have a limited board presence is an interesting idea. That said, I think I echo the sentiment that it feels like its doing a lot of different things - I think I see how it's meant to put you back into a game you're losing (with the life gain, library restock, and board presence from the tokens), but I wonder if there's a cleaner way to do that.
Holy Appeal
2WWWW
Legendary Sorcery

(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)

Create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and lifelink.


Would be my attempt. I think throwing the life gain onto the angels and dropping vigilance would make for a slightly more interactive card that still feels like it should win the game when resolved.

But perhaps this dilutes the core of the idea you've put forward too much and it'd be better to stick with the 6WWW version you put forward? :)
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Post by spacemonaut » 4 years ago

[mention]NUMBERS[/mention] I really like your spin on it. It still creates the angels and it still gives you a lot of lifegain. The restocking your library effect isn't really necessary so it's fine to drop. Many white decks will prefer to keep their graveyard around so they can reanimate/recall from it (consider Sun Titan). Overall the card feels like it's doing just one thing, even though it's secretly doing multiple things.

I think I'd push it up to CMC 7 or 8, but that's something development would fix.

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Post by NUMBERS » 4 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
4 years ago
I think I'd push it up to CMC 7 or 8, but that's something development would fix.
I think if it weren't legendary it would need to be 8 at least, I'm not sure how much of a "discount" Legendary should give, and I think you're right that's something that development would need to answer.
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Post by spacemonaut » 4 years ago

NUMBERS wrote:
4 years ago
spacemonaut wrote:
4 years ago
I think I'd push it up to CMC 7 or 8, but that's something development would fix.
I think if it weren't legendary it would need to be 8 at least, I'm not sure how much of a "discount" Legendary should give, and I think you're right that's something that development would need to answer.
Oh, you're right, I keep forgetting in the cost evaluation that it's legendary. I'm not sure what kind of discount that's meant to come with either, we don't have much to go by there... CMC6 could be fine after all.

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Post by Krishnath » 4 years ago

NUMBERS wrote:
4 years ago
I think I like the way Appeal to a Higher Power is heading design wise, as it being Legendary and requiring you have a limited board presence is an interesting idea. That said, I think I echo the sentiment that it feels like its doing a lot of different things - I think I see how it's meant to put you back into a game you're losing (with the life gain, library restock, and board presence from the tokens), but I wonder if there's a cleaner way to do that.
Holy Appeal
2WWWW
Legendary Sorcery

(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)

Create three 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and lifelink.


Would be my attempt. I think throwing the life gain onto the angels and dropping vigilance would make for a slightly more interactive card that still feels like it should win the game when resolved.

But perhaps this dilutes the core of the idea you've put forward too much and it'd be better to stick with the 6WWW version you put forward? :)
The issue with that version is that it effectively delays the lifegain for one whole turn, which in multiplayer games can, and often will kill you. It also lacks the library restock, which makes you extra vulnerable to milling strategies, if you only have half a dozen cards because your opponent runs a mill strategy and mills you for more than six cards a turn, means you're effectively dead on your next draw. Without the library restock and the lifegain on the same turn, you'll never have the chance to get back into the game in most multiplayer formats.

The more I think about it, the more I think the nine mana version is the way to go, that way it is not a dead card unless its conditions are met.
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Post by NUMBERS » 4 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
4 years ago
The more I think about it, the more I think the nine mana version is the way to go, that way it is not a dead card unless its conditions are met.
Oh, I had neglected to consider multiplayer as the cards intended focus. I see what you're going for.

Just wanted to say I dig Saproling Hive too!
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Post by WWolfe » 4 years ago

I actually created something similar to Corpse Rack myself a year or so ago...


Cadaver Shelf 4
Artifact (Rare)
Whenever a non-token creature dies, put a corpse counter on Cadaver Shelf.
1B, Remove a corpse counter from Cadaver Shelf: Create a tapped 2/2 black Zombie creature token.

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