Commander: Legacy Project

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Krishnath
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

(Formerly: Building custom commander decks for old sets and making new cards.)

Warning, this is a long one, a really, really long one.

So, a few days ago I had a really, and I mean really, stupid idea to challenge myself and bide my time until I can afford to purchase the last couple of parts to fix my computers last issues, what if I made a bunch of commander decks tied to an old set. And when I say old, I mean really, really old. Of course I went with Legends (because duh). And boy was I in for a challenge.

For this project I set some basic rules for myself.

1. I have to respect the reserved list, that means a lot of the good stuff from back then is off the table.

2. No reprints except from the set itself (legends) or earlier sets.

3. Because Legends was a large set, I need to make five decks.

4. I need to make 81 new cards to be distributed evenly between the decks.

5. For these new cards I have access to all currently evergreen mechanics if need be, as well as the mechanics in the game at the time (Banding, Rampage, and Regeneration being the big three), but no other mechanics. (I'll skip Bands with Other because it is terrible).

6. Any new cards must follow current design philosophy, that means no color breaks.

As you can see, this is quite the challenge I've set for myself. Rule 2 means that I do not have access to any of the commander staples, including Command Tower and its ilk, and thanks to rule 1, I have very limited mana options for the decks when done. That means a decent part of the 81 new cards I am allowed will be taken up by lands.

As I'm forced to make five decks (instead of just two), the logical solution was to go with the OG Elder dragons: Arcades Sabboth (GWU), Chromium (WUB), Nicol Bolas (UBR), Vaevictis Asmadi (BRG), and Palladia-Mors (RGW), this gives me the most options when it came to each card pool, and as a bonus, each of the three mana combinations came with an additional Legend from the set that were not on the reserved list. Several of which had not been reprinted since Chronicles (Short of Rubinia Soulsinger that WotC really likes reprinting for some reason, just an observation, not a complaint, as she is actually pretty good). However, since rule 1. stops me from using the dual lands, and I can't use the usual mana fixers (short of Sol Ring), I had to get creative. I started with the common shared between the five decks, and came up with this:

Elder Compass 3
Artifact (C)
T: Add C.
3, T, Sacrifice Elder Compass: Search your library for a Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, or Forest land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Shuffle.

As you can see, this is a fairly powerful card as it can find any land with those land types, however I think the fairly steep cost (six mana total to fetch a land that comes into play tapped) makes up for it being able to find nonbasics with either of those land types. I also decided to go with the newer wording for the shuffle part. I contemplated putting the land on top of the library instead, thus eating a draw, but it coming into play tapped is a sufficient drawback. I wanted a card that would see play in the commander format.

That brings me to the lands, the lack of duals and with only access to one land that could tap for multiple colors, I really didn't have many options other than basics, and nothing but basics and one City of Brass would quickly become really boring. Fortunately, WotC provided a solution that I could co-opt and modify for my needs: Come into play tapped dual lands. Thanks to Kaldheim we now know that WotC considers coming into play tapped is sufficient of a drawback that they are willing to print nonrare dual lands with basic land types at rarities other than rare, provided the lands come into the play tapped. Which brings me to the following:

Bonestrewn Crest
Land - Swamp Mountain (U)
(T: Add B or R.)
Bonestrewn Crest enters the battlefield tapped.


I created a total of 10 of these, one for each two color combination, and to keep the numbers equal put two in each deck. One ally, and one enemy. I gave them all setting neutral names to ensure that they are reusable in the future should I so chose. In addition to the Bonestrewn Crest above, they're Cliffside Reef (UR), Cypress Bog (BG), Fertile Veldt (GW), Flourishing Isle (GU), Haunted Shipwreck (UB), Heather Moorland (WB), Highland Meadow (RW), Sylvan Ridge (RG), and Tidal Plain (WU). They are almost functionally the same as the common snow duals other than not being snow. The reason I decided to only put two in each deck was a simple one, putting three in each deck with make the ally colored ones twice as common as the enemy colored ones, and I really loathe unequal cycles in sets. Lol.

But two additional lands in each deck really isn't enough so, the next logical solution would be to add a tri-land to each, which is where I hit my first snag. How do I create a non-rare tri-land that doesn't feel like something that has come before? I mean, I could just let them come into play tapped and then be done with it, but that would make them functionally identical to the Alara lands. I could make them lairs that bounce a land when they hit the battlefield, but that is just the Planeshift lairs all over again (although the thought of having lairs for each of the Elder Dragons is appealing, just renaming the Planeshift lairs is not.)
So far, what I have is:

Arcades' Fortress
Land - Lair (U)
Arcades' Fortress enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add G, W, or U.

But I am really not happy with this solution. It, quite frankly, sucks. It's just the Alara lands with a new name and the Lair subtype. I want to make them mechanically distinct, yet playable.

I have more cards (including a cycle of five cards, three of which will go in each deck), but this has gone on for long enough so far. But I really need help with the tri-lands. I've been wracking my brain for two days with them trying to find a solution I would be happy with, and I am at my wits end. :crazy:

So, as always, Comments, Critiques, and Constructive Criticism is welcome.
Last edited by Krishnath 2 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

Easy solution: Make them pain (with no nonpain option) instead.

Chromium's Study
Land - Lair (U)
T: Add W, U, or B. Chromium's Study deals 1 damage to you.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
Easy solution: Make them pain (with no nonpain option) instead.

Chromium's Study
Land - Lair (U)
T: Add W, U, or B. Chromium's Study deals 1 damage to you.
That is so obvious I can't believe I didn't think of it.

Not quite as good as a City of Brass, but very playable in the format.

Edit: Also, I am totally stealing that name for Chromium's land. :P

Edit: I'll be posting more tomorrow.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Alrighty then, the other day was about the new common card to go in each deck, and the 15 new lands put in the decks (three to each deck). If I feel unusually scatterbrained today it's primarily because I've just finished watching the latest episode of Wandavision, and that was en emotional rollercoaster and a half.

Also: I cast Alter Thread Title for U. Now it seems a little more appropriate for what is going on here.

Anyway, sixteen new cards down, sixty-five to go, but before we get to that, we need to talk about the remainder of the lands in the deck. Remember, due to rule 2 I can only use lands from Legends or earlier, and because of rule 1 I have to respect the reserved list, so sadly no Library of Alexandria or Bazaar of Baghdad. So there is basically no way around it, there is going to be a lot of basic lands in each deck. Looking at existing commander decks, there is usually around 36 to 40 lands in a commander deck, depending on the colors of the deck. So, somewhere around 30 of the lands need to be basics out of sheer necessity. But even if Rule 1 and 2 limits our options for nonbasics, it doesn't mean there aren't options.

City of Brass is a given in each of the decks, that's not even worthy of discussion. It has always been a playable option for decks of three colors or more, so it goes in.

But that still leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to utility and nonbasic lands. But while doing some research I came across something really interesting. Of all the lands in Legends, only one is on the reserved list. The Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, that means that the remaining ten lands in legends are possibilities, including the five remaining legendaries. However, we can instantly dismiss five, the five nonlegendary lands that lack a mana tap ability can be discarded because all they do is grant legendary creatures of the appropriate color "bands with other legends" and that ability friggin' sucks. That leaves the remaining five legendary lands. Each of them tap for one mana of the appropriate color, and have a nifty activated ability. However, one of the five is banned in Commander, and for good reason, and putting it in a commander preconstructed deck, even a fictional one like we are making here is pretty stupid, we can discard it. So Karakas has to leave. We also need to remove Tolaria from the pool, because all it does is remove an ability we aren't using anyway (and causing nasty timing issues.). Which leaves Hammerheim, Urborg, and Pendelhaven, each of which can be reprinted with impunity (and WotC has done just that with Pendelhaven).

I am thinking that putting one of the three in the color appropriate deck (Urborg in the Nicol Bolas deck for example) would boost the desirability of said deck, and they could easily replace a basic land in the deck.

As for other lands, we do have options: Arabian Nights do have several lands that can be put in the decks, besides City of Brass of course. Unfortunately most of the lands in the set are on the reserved list, short of the aforementioned City, as well as Desert and Oasis. The latter of them (Oasis) is pretty worthless in the format, as it doesn't even tap for mana. Desert on the other hand is a possibility in one or more of the decks, it isn't particularly useful however, as there won't exactly be many 1 toughness creatures running around. So I think we can safely ignore those. Antiquities on the other hand only has six lands, only one of which is on the reserved list (Mishra's Workshop), the rest being fair game. One card in particular stands out as a very useful utility land that would be a commander staple if it got reprinted more, specifically Strip Mine. Putting one of these in each deck seems like a good idea. The remaining lands (Urzatron and Mishra's Factory) have potential for use as well, and could easily be put in either or all of the decks. There aren't really any other lands for us to use, so the mana base for one of the decks might look something like this (using the Nicol Bolas mana base as an example):

Bolas' Library Land - Lair (U)
City of Brass Land (R)
Cliffside Reef Land - Island Mountain (U)
Haunted Shipwreck Land - Island Swamp (U)
Mishra's Factory Land
Urborg Legendary Land (R)
Urza's Mine Land - Urza's Mine (U)
Urza's Power Plant Land - Urza's Power-Plant (U)
Urza's Tower Land - Urza's Tower (U)
Island x 9 Basic Land - Island (C)
Swamp x 9 Basic Land - Swamp (C)
Mountain x 9 Basic Land - Mountain (C)

Thus bringing the total number of lands to 36, which seems like a good target. For the two decks without an available legendary land (due to them being either banned or just bad), we simply up the number of the appropriate basic land by one.

Thoughts? Comments? Constructive Criticism? Should we use any of the remaining 65 new cards to create more new lands?
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Post by Morpic_Tide » 2 years ago

Urzatron "feels" wrong since it's a lot of Colorless dedication in a scenario where there's a lot of color identity going around, and has thematic problems besides. I also have issues with Rule 6 because you're looking at a situation where the reprint pool is so narrow and ancient that very little current design philosophy applies, so you're likely to run into a harsh problem finding ways to make a coherent theme when your reprint pool has such a dearth of current mechanics to synergize with.

One thought is to try and think of Antiquities and Arabian Nights "archetypes" that slot around a wedge-color Legend and rebrand the Lairs appropriately, rather than building them all around the Elder Dragons. Mainly because I imagine one can get a lot more out of Rubinia Soulsinger than Arcades or Hazezon Tamar than Palladia-Mors. Adun Oakenshield might be the best fit for an aggro deck by recycling your gas, and then maybe Lady Evangela for a "stalling" option.

Nicol Boloas is too iconic for me to feel it sensible to leave him off the face, and those are a set of colors mighty well thematically suited to Upkeep. Even with rule 6 intact, we can still get Dark Ritual alongside a Red retroclone that isn't quite any current one to pump him out earlier, at the cost of your own cards... Which will be promptly restocked by Black and Blue and filtered by Red and Blue. Control into Big Spells, basically.

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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

It might be helpful to let the small generals from Legends predicate the archetypes. The OG Elder Dragons are iconic and nostalgic, but they're also junk. I have more thoughts about this but will keep this post short.

Angus Mackenzie - pillow fort
Halfdane - fatty ramp
Bartel Runeaxe - midrange disruption, i.e. the "anti-deck" deck
Adun Oakenshield - aristocrat recursion
Hazezon Tamar - tokens, with tribal subtheme

The "dragons' lairs" are just Cities of Brass, which is already in the decks. They aren't bad, but could be more interesting.

The question is, is this still happening or is your computer complete now?
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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Legend wrote:
2 years ago
It might be helpful to let the small generals from Legends predicate the archetypes. The OG Elder Dragons are iconic and nostalgic, but they're also junk. I have more thoughts about this but will keep this post short.

Angus Mackenzie - pillow fort
Halfdane - fatty ramp
Bartel Runeaxe - midrange disruption, i.e. the "anti-deck" deck
Adun Oakenshield - aristocrat recursion
Hazezon Tamar - tokens, with tribal subtheme

The "dragons' lairs" are just Cities of Brass, which is already in the decks. They aren't bad, but could be more interesting.

The question is, is this still happening or is your computer complete now?
Computer is complete, but I don't know if I will continue this. The new Piru kinda put the kibosh on an idea I had for the Chromium deck. But if I continue, I can't actually use those legendary creatures for one simple reason: They are all on the reserved list. That said, nothing is really preventing giving them new cards that fit the colors and the characters while still being different. I'll have to do some wiki research on them to see what can be done. But a repeatable fog effect is not fun, at all. Hmm... Maybe some sort of tap down effect on Angus could work.

Hmm... Thinking about it, I do think there are things I can do if I continue this. The Elder Dragons will still be the faces, but I'll make secondary commanders based on other legendary creatures in their colors and from legends.

I do agree with the lairs though, I was never quite happy with them. I want to make them distinct from the OG Invasion lairs, while still making them playable and fun, while maintaining the feel for the Legends era. If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

@Morpic_Tide I do agree with Urzatron feeling wrong, but to be honest, it was more about filling out the nonbasics than anything else. I also see your point regarding mechanics and giving the decks themes outside of the elder dragons. I think I can still keep the elder dragons as the "face" legends, then add a "new" legend based on another legend from the era in their colors. I do want to avoid cards on the reserved list however. But I think I can give each of the decks their own mechanical identity that would play well with "future" cards.

Now, I am only spitballing ideas here, so bear (bare?) with me.

Arcades Sabboth - These are the defensive colors (blue and white) and creature colors (green and white), so a pillowfort strategy feeding into big splashy creatures seems like the way to go.
Chromium - I could see a WUB artifact/enchantment themed deck here, with a bunch of homages and reprints from early magic. It should be fairly easy to create a mechanic that feels "primitive" compared to modern mechanics but still be playable and fun that feeds of artifact and enchantments.
Nicol Bolas - This is all about disruption and control, much like Bolas himself. Removal and card advantage is the way to go, and long term chip damage.
Vaevictis Asmadi - I really want this to be a reanimator deck, however the lack of reanimation spells in the card pool makes that an impossibility. However, all three colors that make up the three color combination of V.A. is extremely aggro. So, hitting hard and fast is probably the way to go, with a few reanimation tricks thrown in for good measure.
Palladia Mors - This should be the creature swarm strategy, so tokens and lots of little creatures that you pump up.

Hmm.... The more I think about it, the more I think I can get this to work.

Legends was kind of interesting looking back at it. Card design has come a very long way since the early days of MTG, and it is abundantly clear that in the early days they had no idea what a proper power level was. I mean, we got cards like Hymn To Tourach and High Tide at common, while cards like Implements of Sacrifice was made Rare. Not to mention the casting cost of many of the legendary creatures in the early sets, they were all over the place.
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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Ok, I've been thinking about the lairs over night, and I think I've found a solution that makes them feel different from previous lairs, but still good and playable. I was thinking something like the following.

Arcades' Fortress
Land - Lair (U)
Indestructible
T: Add C.
T: Add G, W, or U. Arcades' Fortress deals 1 damage to you.

Since I have access to all current evergreen keywords thanks to rule 5, and WotC seems more and more willing to use indestructible on lands (partially to counter LD in older formats), it seems like a good solution to avoid "feel bad" situations. Additionally, by allowing them to tap for colorless gives them flexibility in their use. Yes, you can still get colored mana from them, at a price, but if you don't need colored mana at that moment, you can still tap them for C.
My only worry with this version is that it may be a bit to strong, but that could be easily fixed in one or two ways: Either they bounce a land when they enter the battlefield (the "Karoo" effect), or they could enter the battlefield tapped.

Thoughts? Comments? Constructive Criticism?
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Post by Krishnath » 2 years ago

Ok, I've been mulling it over for a while now, and I think I've come up with a general idea for each deck, both to differentiate them from one another, and to give them more of a focus. So bear with me, when I explain.

Arcades Sabboth (GWU) - A defensive "pillowfort" deck with some ramp that leads into a few big spells/creatures.

Chromium (WUB) - Artifacts and Enchantments matter, as I have access to all current evergreen mechanics, that also means I have access to clue, food, and treasure tokens. And the solution to this had been staring me in the face from the start and I didn't see it: I have a mechanic I created a while back that is perfect for this: Craft. It's basically populate but for artifact and enchantment tokens. It says Craft (create a token that is a copy of an artifact or enchantment token you control.)

Nicol Bolas (UBR) - These colors are perfect for a Control style deck, disrupt your foes and gain card advantage. It really isn't that hard to do. Make a few spells that hit all your opponents, and other controllish cards, and it could work well.

Vaevictis Asmadi (BRG) - Hit them big, and hit them hard. This is the aggro deck, complete with Rampage. As such, additional cards with rampage, cards that grant rampage or trample, and cards that force your opponents to block with multiple creatures are obvious. To get out the big beats, there will be ramp.

Palladia-Mors (RGW) - This would be the "go wide" deck, lots of small creatures and token creature generation, it will also be the "banding" deck, and mass pump deck.

This I think are the best options for the different color pairings and elder dragons.

Thoughts? Comments? Critique? Constructive Criticism?
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