Ookhtan Deities

TurkeySloth
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Post by TurkeySloth » 3 years ago

As you may remember from another topic of mine, I have a custom roleplay setting with a race known as phoenixfolk in it. It's named Runepath/Ookhta. The first, Chooka, is worshiped by the phoenixfolk
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Consonants
Plosive (<p>, etc.) + <h> = interchangable aspirated plosive ([pʰ], etc.) and fricative ([ɸ], etc.), except <kh> (always [kʰ]) and <ch> (always [ç] (hue))
Doubled consonant (<pp>, etc.) + optional <h> = long fricative ([ɸː], etc.), except <kkh> (doesn't occur))
For Fleetfeathers, <sj, zj, qj, wj> ([sᶲʲ, zᶲʲ, t͡sᶲʲ, wʲ]) become <shw, zhw, tjw, wj> ([ɕʷ, ʑʷ, t͡ɕʷ, ɥ]) beofre <i, e>
<f> = interchangable [f, ɸ] (voiced counterpart is <v>)
<r> = interchangable [ʁ, r, ʀ, ɾ]
<s> = interchangable [s, sᶲ] (voiced counterpart <z>)
<sh> = interchangable [ʃ, ɕ] (voiced counterpart is <zh>, volceless lateral counterpart is <lh>, volced palatal lateral counterpart is <lhj>)
<tj> = interchangable [t͡ʃ, t͡ɕ] (voiced counterpart is <dj>)
<q> = [t͡sᶲ]
<x> = interchangable [x, χ]
<^> = [ʔ], for simplicity

Vowels
Doubled vowels (<aa>, etc.) are long
Consecuive vowels are pronounced separately unless below. In that case, spearation is hyphenated
For Fleetfeathers,
For Fleetfeathers, [y] replaces [jɯ, ju, jʊ] after <p, b, q, f, v, s, z, m, w> ([p, b, t͡sᶲ, ɸ, β, sᶲ, zᵝ, m, w]). The same conditions apply to [œ] replacing [ja, jɐ, jɑ] and [ø] replacing [jo, jo̞, jɔ]
<a> = interchangable [a, ɐ, ɑ]
<e> = interchangable [e, ə, ɛ]
<i> = interchangable [i, ɪ]
<o> = interchangable [o, ɔ]
<u> = interchangable [ɯ, u, ʊ]
<ai, au, oi> = [aɪ̯, aʊ̯, ɔɪ̯] (long counterparts are <aai, aau, ooi>
<ei, ou> = [eɪ̯, o̞ʊ̯]
Tjuukka, Everlasting Fleetfeather {2RR}
Legendary Creature — Bird God (M)
Flying
Whenever a phoenix or another bird enters the battlefield under your control, put an ash counter on Tjuukka, Everlasting Fleetfeather.
When Tjuukka dies, if it had two or more ash counters on it, exile it, then return it to the battlefield tapped under your control at the beginning of your next end step. Otherwise, put it on top of its owner's library.
2/2
Previous version(s)
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Version 1.0
Tjuukka, the Everlasting {2RR}
Legendary Creature — Phoenix God (M)
Flying, haste
Whenever Tjuukka, the Everlasting deals combat damage, pay any amount of {R}. When you do, put X+1 ash counters on Tjuukka, where X is that number.
If Chookka would die, remove all ash counters from her. If you removed four or more ash counters this way, exile her and return her to the battlefield tapped at the beginning of the next end step. Otherwise, put her on top of your library.
3/2

version 2.0 (Sorry for not updating)
Tjhuukka, the Everlasting {2RR}
Legendary Creature — Phoenix God (M)
Flying, haste
Whenever Chookka, the Everlasting attacks, put a number of ash counters on Chookka equal to its power plus the number of phoenixes you control.
Wher Chookka dies, remove all ash counters from it and put it on top of its owner's library. If you removed eight or more counters this way, instead exile it. Return it to the battlefield tapped under your control at the beginning of your next end step.
3/2
Elves worship Shalmei

Shalme, Elven Unifier {1WW}
Legendary Creature — Elf God (M)
First strike
Whenever another elf creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a unity counter on Shalmei, Elven Unifier.
Elf creatures you control get +1/+1 for each unity counter of Shalmei. As long as there are seven or more unity counters on it, elf creatures you control have first strike.
2/2
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N/A
Shalmei's compatriot, Saiel

Saieal, Winter's Grace {2G} (Update pending)
Legendary Snow Creature — Elf God (R)
Lands you control are snow in addition to their other types and have "{T}: Add {G}{G}."
{X}, {T}: Reveal the top X cards of your library and put any lands revealed this way onto the battlefield. Put the other cards reealed this way on the bottom of your library. Spend only {S} on this ability.
1/2
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Edit 1: Card overhauled after a suggestion from elsewhere.
Edit 2: Widened scope and added Shalmei
Edit 3: Added Saiel
Last edited by TurkeySloth 3 years ago, edited 9 times in total.
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void_nothing
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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

Lore note: These are pretty fragile Gods, with only Chookka having a traditional "godly resilience" ability, but we just saw Gods who are actually mortal in Kaldheim, so no real harm done.

Chookka - There is a fair amount of complicated arithmetic here for something that is a binary choice of outcomes. If the number of counters mattered for something other than "more than eight"/"less than eight" that would be okay, but as-is there's way more complexity than this design needs. You also don't need to remove the counters in any sense - "When Chookka dies, put it on top of its owner's library. If it had eight or more ash counters on it, instead..."

Shalmei - I like this design in some ways - it's a simple but also incredibly powerful payoff for the tribe in question. But then you get to the seven counters ability - this is, you have to remember, something that kicks in while it's giving +7/+7. How useful is first strike going to be at that stage? If you do want to have a bonus like this, I would suggest it kicking in at a lower number, like five, and having it grant an ability that either makes sure you're alive to enjoy your hugely pumped army (lifelink or indestructible) or that will just straight-up end the game if you get to that level (double strike).

Saiel - Another cohesive but very strong one. You have to remember that if this makes lands snow, adding a "spend only S" restriction to the activated ability is really not much of a restriction at all.
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SecretInfiltrator
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 3 years ago

I want to add that Shalmei is placed wrong in the color pie. Your Elves are green and white. That anthem effect has no ceiling, so it scaling to pump by +4/+4 or more is going to happen quite easily. That makes this green rather than white.

Adding to this the also correct observation that +7/+7 is a weird spot to add first strike as an ability, I think it would be neater to actually go a white route and have something like:

Whenever another nontoken Elf enters the battlefield under your control, create a 1/1 green|white Elf creature token.
Elf creatures you control get +1/+1. As long as you control seven or more Elves, Elves you control also have first strike.

With a bit of pushing and re-balancing the numbers maybe.

For Chokka I outright suggest:

When ~ dies, if it had eight or more ash counters on it, return it to the battlefield. Otherwise put it on top of its owner's library.

Is there any reason for the sojourn to exile that I'm missing anyway? It's not like you can easily get eight new counters on it for free infinite sacrifice fodder.

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spacemonaut
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

There's a design philosophy I appreciate very much, and which I think applies strongly to Magic cards: "perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." (So said by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.)

With that said, Chookka could be simpler. At minimum. it adds 3+1 counters each time it attacks. At most it will have enough ash counters after two attacks, in some cases it will need just one attack. If we can obtain the same outcome with simpler mechanisms we should try those, provided we don't sacrifice vital flavor in the process.

I would revise Chookka thus:

1. Use your choice of: "Whenever Chookka attacks, put an ash counter on it." or "Whenever Chookka attacks, put an ash counter on it for each phoenix you control."
2. Use a threshold of 2-3 ash counters.

I might redraft it like this for example:
Flying, haste
Whenever Chookka, the Everlasting attacks, put an ash counter on it.
When Chookka dies, if it had two or more ash counters on it, exile it, then return it to the battlefield tapped under your control at the beginning of your next end step. Otherwise, put it on top of its owner's library.
Note I've also reworded how the last ability handles exile vs library in this one, in a way that I think might be a little safer & clearer. (No implying it might return from your library to the battlefield, for example.)



Shalmei: You don't need to say "elf creature" when referencing permanents. You can and should say "elf" or "elves".
Contemporary templating asks us that a card buffing elves including itself would say "CARDNAME and other elves you control", not just "Elves you control".

Given those two things, here's a templating revision:
First strike
Whenever another elf enters the battlefield under your control, put a unity counter on Shalmei, Elven Unifier.
Shalmei and other elves you control get +1/+1 for each unity counter on Shalmei.
Other elves you control have first strike as long as there are seven or more unity counters on Shalmei.



Saiel is undercosted, just on the basis of her "lands you control add twice as much mana" effect. There are not many cards that do this. Symmetrical ones can cost 2G, but the one-sided ones cost much more than that. All of them do not additionally ramp you more lands. Nikya of the Old Ways is a rare that does this for 3RG and she comes with a big restriction. Mirari's Wake is a mythic that does this for 3GW and has an anthem, and does nothing else and does not come with a creature body. Mana Reflection is a rare that does this for 4GG and nothing else.

I suggest Saiel should cost at least 3GG, especially factoring in the snow thing.

Additionally she should have her last ability replaced by something else that won't lead to exponential ramp. Consider that on turn 4 with 4 lands I have eight mana. I could use that to look at eight cards, find ~3 lands, put those onto the battlefield untapped, and still have six mana to go this turn. On turn 5 I'll untap seven lands, play another land for the turn, and have sixteen mana available and be ready to hardcast anything up to Emrakul the Aeons Torn. That's a bit too much acceleration! I think it's a fine ability, but it should be on a different card that isn't also doubling your mana.

TurkeySloth
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Post by TurkeySloth » 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I've, actually, overhauled Chookka again since posting this. I just forgot to update the version in here, so that, particular feedback is moot.

New version (to be edited into the first post)
Tjhuuka, Everlasting Fleetfeather {2RR}
Legendary Creature — Bird* God (M)
Flying
Whenever a phoenix or another bird creature enters the battlefield under your control, put an ash counter on Chookka, Everlasting Fleetfeather.
When Chookka dies, if it had two or more ash counters on it, exile it, then return it to the battlefield tapped under your control at the beginning of your next end step. Otherwise, put it on top of its owner's library.
2/2
[*]Phoenix connection is the race being know as phoenixfolk (think more bird-like Avens able to be based off of non-humans in Magc terms) locally. I changed the primary subtype to bird because phoenix doesn't, traditionally, fit as mon-colored for other colors.

I'll consider your suggestions while I'm thinking about how to update Shalmei.

Saiel didn't feel rare without without adding the mana. Granted, now that multiple people have pointed out how broken they are, they should be the only one doing it so they can still come out before turn five. Is the version below better at {1GG}, {2G}, {2GG}, or {3G}?

Saieal, Winter's Grace {?}
Legendary Snow Creature — Elf God (R)
{T}: Add {G}{G}
Lands you control are snow in addition to their other types.
{X}, {T}: Reveal the top X cards of your library and put any lands revealed this way onto the battlefield. Put the other cards reealed this way on the bottom of your library.
1/2
WARNING: Do not refute with pre-6th Ed. cards.

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