Unmander- Invasion Baby

Pygyzy
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Post by Pygyzy » 3 years ago

Pith, The Cranky WRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Wurm Child
Flapping (This creature can't be blocked except by creatures with flying or reach if you flapped your arms like a bird this turn.)
Napping (When you're attacked, you may have Pith fight target attacking creature.)
Fruitfight (Fight damage dealt by this creature also causes you to create that many Fruit. They're fruity artifact Food tokens named Fruit with, "Eat this fruit: Put two +.5/+.5 counters on target creature. Use fruit as tokens.)
3/3

Arrgharrarrz, the Precocious BRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Pirate Child
Fussy (This creature attacks a random opponent during your combat if able and deals it's combat damage to creatures blocking it as well as defending player as though it weren't blocked.)
If Argharrarrz would leave the battlefield, instead put him in the time-out zone with two grumpy counters on him. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may say, "Arr, I promise to be a good boy matey." in a pirate voice. If you do, remove a grumpy counter from him. When Argharrarrz has no more grumpy counters, put him onto the battlefield from the time-out zone.
3/3

Grossest, The Burper UBR
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Ooze Child
Foul (This creature can only be blocked by skeletons, goblins and spirits.)
Whenever Grossest deals combat damage to a player, gain control of target creature defending player controls that isn't a skeleton, goblin or spirit, for as long as you control Grossest. As long as you do, that creature's name is Ooze, it loses all types and abilities, and becomes a 1/0 green and white Ooze creature with, "This creature gets +0/+1 for each Ooze you control.".
3/3

Trevor, The Praised WUG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Noble Child
Golden (Trevor is white, blue, black, red, green, pink, gold, eye color and fruity while on the battlefield.)
Trevor has protection from all color words opponents control. (Anything with a color word in it's text.)
Whenever Trevor deals combat damage to a player, you may say, "Isn't he precious?". If you do, gain 1 life for each color word among permanents.
3/3

Gofar, The Vanisher WUB
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Spirit Child
Peek-a-boo (Opponents can't choose this creature.)
Put a card in your hand outside the game, say, "Where'd you go?": Gofar is outside the game. Return Gofar to the game at any time.
Whenever Gofar deals combat damage to a player, you may put a card defending player owns outside the game.
3/3

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spacemonaut
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

I'm going to gloss over that none of these type lines will fit. These designs are kind of a mess, but they have some good parts buried under a lot of bad parts.
Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Pith, The Cranky WRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Wurm Child
Flap your arms like a bird: This creature gains flying until end of turn.
Whenever one or more creatures attack you, you may have Pith fight target attacking creature.
Fruitfight (Fight damage dealt by this creature also causes you to create that many Fruit. They're fruity artifact Food tokens named Fruit with, "Eat this fruit: Put two +.5/+.5 counters on target creature. Use fruit as tokens.)
3/3
I've revised this card to de-keyword the first two abilities. I think keywording these was actually detracting from their flavor because the keywords were drawing too much attention to themselves to let me just enjoy the card. Use keywording with restraint. Especially Napping has a big flavor disconnect: "I fight anything that attacks" doesn't sound very much like a nap at all, meanwhile slumbering has an established mechanical identity and it looks like this stuff. I'm going to touch on this again with the next creature, Arrgharrarrz.

"Two +0.5/+0.5" counters" is a phrase that suggests you shouldn't really be using halves, given you're not using the half-ness. Using just +1/+1 counters in silver border is fine! (I say this noting Hilarious Torture Device also does the same thing.)

I don't suggest using Fruit tokens or requiring consumption of fruit. That's not going to be suitable for many people, and you're generating large quantities of it over the course of a game. There's a lot of concerns over here: sanitary issues, card damage from moisture (apples) or grease (raisins), fasting holidays, dietary issues, etc. Note that the existing cards that represent actual food, being Thopter Pie Network and Yule Ooze, are specifically holiday cards given out for a season based around feasting, and aren't really meant for serious repeated play like un-set cards. They're also nonspecific as to what to use: an M&M is a food.

The other cards that use oddball tokens (Handy Dandy Clone Machine, Mishra's Toy Workshop) use something dry and not related to food consumption.

Foodfight (generate Food tokens for fighting) would be great, but a different mechanic.

Anyway — this card has three abilities, two of which work tightly together (fight and fruitfight) but leave the third one out cold. Can I suggest turning fruitfight into a tokenlink ability (a la squirrellink on Earl of Squirrel)? That way you get tokens for fighting and when you fly in for attack. Alternately, "Whenever Pith deals damage, put that many +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature." Actually, do bear in mind that scales crazily fast for a 3/3 permanent, so maybe just "put a +1/+1 counter on up to one target creature".




Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Arrgharrarrz, the Precocious BRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Pirate Child
Fussy (This creature attacks a random opponent during your combat if able and deals it's combat damage to creatures blocking it as well as defending player as though it weren't blocked.)
If Argharrarrz would leave the battlefield, instead put him in the time-out zone with two grumpy counters on him. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may say, "Arr, I promise to be a good boy matey." in a pirate voice. If you do, remove a grumpy counter from him. When Argharrarrz has no more grumpy counters, put him onto the battlefield from the time-out zone.
3/3
"Attacks at random and super-tramples" does not say "fussy" to me. This is a huge flavor disconnect.

Avoid inventing whole new things if you don't need to. "Exile Argharrarrz with two time-out counters on him" would give us the same flavor just fine. Creating a new zone and a new counter is drawing too much attention to itself.

Regarding both of those, and on the keywords I removed from Pith: you're fast reaching the stage of "lol, look at all the wacky things I can do for their own sake!" and it draws so much attention to itself that it makes it hard to just enjoy the card. It detracts from the experience a lot.

Elegance is still good! A card is not done when you've added all you can add. A card is done when you've removed all you can remove whilst the purpose of the card stays intact. When you're trying to fit flavor, don't think "how much stuff can I add to evoke that flavor?" but instead "how little do I need to add to evoke it?".

I'm going to revise this based on these notes so far.
Arrgharrarrz, the Precocious BRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Pirate Child
At the beginning of combat on your turn, choose an opponent at random. Arrgharrarrz attacks that player this combat if able.
Arrgharrarrz assigns combat damage to creatures it's blocking as well as defending player as though it weren't blocked.
If Argharrarrz would leave the battlefield, instead exile him with two time-out counters on him.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may say, "Arr, I promise to be a good boy matey." in a pirate voice. If you do, remove a time-out counter from him. When Argharrarrz has no more time-out counters, put him onto the battlefield from the time-out zone.
3/3
Less special parts defined, and the flavor's still intact for us to focus on. The random attack template comes from Raving Dead. The "At" needs to be on its own line. Strictly speaking, so does the following "When". That said, this rules text is too large. There's too much going on. Does it really need attacking at random, super-trample-and-also-not, and a two-turn revival time? I think it would be fine and also suggesting a grumpy violent child if it were like this:
Arrgharrarrz, the Precocious BRG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Pirate Child
Trample
At the beginning of combat on your turn, choose an opponent at random. Arrgharrarrz attacks that player this combat if able.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Arrgharrarrz is in your graveyard, you may say "Arr, I promise to be a good boy matey." in a pirate voice. If you do, return it from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
5/3
Normal trample, 3/3 → 5/3, revives straight away but it's tapped and doesn't have haste. He'll get up next turn to attack.




Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Grossest, The Burper UBR
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Ooze Child
Foul (This creature can only be blocked by skeletons, goblins and spirits.)
Whenever Grossest deals combat damage to a player, gain control of target creature defending player controls that isn't a skeleton, goblin or spirit, for as long as you control Grossest. As long as you do, that creature's name is Ooze, it loses all types and abilities, and becomes a 1/0 green and white Ooze creature with, "This creature gets +0/+1 for each Ooze you control.".
3/3
Unlike most of the other keywords this one actually flavorfully works, but I don't know why Zombies aren't on there.

That said, gaining control of an arbitrary permanent but then it's just a weak vanilla 1/3 ooze that has nothing to do with the original creature is kind of a letdown. Why's the ooze green and white? Oozes are usually just green or black, and this card isn't white. Why's it a high-toughness creature in Grixis colors? Why are you stealing control to do this?—I get the flavor of turning it to goop, but then the question remains why it ever gets to turn back from goop to normal. Goopification tends to be a pretty permanent experience for living creatures.

Having both (mostly-)unblockable and a powerful saboteur trigger is broken on a 3 CMC card.

I've got a suggestion. This card should become Jund, and Arrgharrarrz should become Grixis. It'll be perfect for both of them. Madness and self-revival are major Grixis traits, and pirates are Grixis colored.

Meanwhile, oozes (BG) and removal (BGR) are thoroughly within Jund's domain. Instead of gaining control, it just destroys a nonland permanent from defending player. Then it creates a 2/2 green Ooze creature token, or a 0/0 with some number of +1/+1 counters on it. Remove Foul and instead give it Trample and make it a 4/4 to give people an actual dilemma: "do I block that and let it stomp all over my dudes and probably still kill several of them, or do I let it through and let the bad thing happen?". Grossest should then go up to cost 2BGR; it's the biggest and thumpiest of the family and breaks the other kids' things.





Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Trevor, The Praised WUG
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Noble Child
Golden (Trevor is white, blue, black, red, green, pink, gold, eye color and fruity while on the battlefield.)
Trevor has protection from all color words opponents control. (Anything with a color word in it's text.)
Whenever Trevor deals combat damage to a player, you may say, "Isn't he precious?". If you do, gain 1 life for each color word among permanents.
3/3
Characteristic-defining abilities like Transguild Courier's work off the battlefield, so I'm not sure why Golden works only on the battlefield. You can just say "Trevor is all colors". In silver-border all those things you listed are colors and it's future-resilient. (Although I don't think fruity should be a color, given it's ... you know ... not a color.)

His second ability explains why you're listing those, but gaining 8+ life every time he connects is a little nuts.




Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Gofar, The Vanisher WUB
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon Spirit Child
Peek-a-boo (Opponents can't choose this creature.)
Put a card in your hand outside the game, say, "Where'd you go?": Gofar is outside the game. Return Gofar to the game at any time.
Whenever Gofar deals combat damage to a player, you may put a card defending player owns outside the game.
3/3
The text on this card is incomplete (into your hand? onto the battlefield?) but the card is almost certainly broken—total vanishing whenever you want for as you want for as long as you want is pretty nuts. I don't know what "is outside the game" means or does though—is a zone change? Is it like phasing? If Gofar goes outside the game then comes back, are they removed from combat? "Exile Gofar. Return it to the battlefield at the beginning of the next end step" would be flavorfully fine and answer a lot of questions without raising any. A wish (or cheat-onto-battlefield?) on a CMC 3 that's this difficult to handle is probably too much.
Last edited by spacemonaut 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

user_938036
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Post by user_938036 » 3 years ago

As spacemonaut explained you've missed the point of unique keywords in an Unset. The only good use was Foul and you missed the point of it being UN, this kind of ability in an unset wants to be quirky and fun. Foul (this creature can't be blocked except by other gross creatures. Gross creatures include anything dead, goblins, and anything slimy.). This captures what you want from the ability and evokes powerful emotions and possibly debates about what is and isn't slimy.

Pith
Flapping, Spacemonaut said it cleary this is more fun and functional as an activated ability.
Napping, I don't get this one at all. These kinds of abilities live and die by flavor meeting function. I understand being attacked wakes them from their nap but why is it may fight and only one?
Fruitfight, this is so close to being foodfight that I can't bring myself to like this ability no matter what it does. Add in that it does a rather nonsensical difficult to track ability and I can't fathom why you would want this. If you want to use 1/2 counters then use 1/2 counters don't use +1/+1 counters but call them 1/2 there isn't any benefit there is only confusion. Also, you may not be aware but "official" rulings on uncards has two half counters fuse to become a single normal counter.

Arrgharrarrz
Fussy, why is super-duper trample here? Keywording the attacks a random opponent is reasonable and even adding an additional effect could be good but when the effect is essentially unblockable it loses a lot of its appeal.
Exile is regularly used as a time-out zone. While it's funny the first time it quickly becomes just annoying that this has its own zone that doesn't' convey anything special like the "absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone" does.

Grossest
I already talked about how to best utilize foul
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, choose target nongross creature defending player controls. For as long as you control ~, gain control of that creature, it's name is Ooze, it loses all types and abilities, and becomes a 0/0 green and white Ooze creature with, "This creature gets +1/+1 for each gross creature you control.". I don't know why this makes green and white oozes when it is black red blue but I assume its part of an underlying theme and thus left it.

Trevor
Golden, I would have never guessed you meant for Fruity to be a color given how it was previously used. That said keywording is every color is fun but unless you spell it out as you did which defeats the point of a keyword it won't work with the looking for color words that you seem to be building as a theme.
Protection form color words is the perfect place to have invented a keyword to mean that.
Considering he has every color word spelled out on himself the last ability turns from a fun mini-game into a flat gain 8 which is overpowered and unfun.

Gofar
Peek-a-boo is an okay use of keywording a unique uneffect but it is a problem because it is superhexproof and hexproof is a very powerful effect.
The outside the game effect, I think I know what you are trying to do here and it's too good when used by spikes. There is no reason to use outside the game you can just use phasing which captures the flavor perfectly because you simply treat a card as though it doesn't exist when it is clearly still where it was doing what it was doing. Just like a game of peek-a-boo.
Phase out a card in your hand it never phases back in, say "Where'd you go?": ~ Phases out and remains phased out until you say "There you are!"
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent a card they own of your choice phases out and never phases back in.

I actually really like what Gofar is doing but it looks too strong.

Pygyzy
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Post by Pygyzy » 3 years ago

Thank you both that was all really helpful. I'm going to use your feedback and make the changes. If you look in the custom sets I have some cards that'll elucidate better what I'm trying to do with these.

To your points,

Pith - Will dekeyword except fruit fight. Fruitfight was food fight originally and my Un set will have a food theme. I settled on fruit because you could "cheat" by using small fruity candy. Skittles would work. Or just put a bowl of cherries or raisins. Any of those would work. However, candy was my other idea. It would be easier and more clear. But I couldn't think of any wordplay for candy tho so I chose fruit haha. Also Pith is the "fibrous internal skin of fruit" so it's a pun.

.5/.5 counters are +1/+1 counters I'm aware. The reason for that is I have cards that will move the decimal over, or round it up.

Argharrarrz- Originally it was just superduper trample but that didn't feel Un enough. This is my least favorite design of the bunch. Not sure what I plan to do but I will consider your inputs.

Grossest - Swapping Argharrarrz and grossest costs is probably what I'll do. Gonna workshop their designs too.

Trevor- So fruity came about because fruit tokens would be the color of whatever fruit you used to represent it. Like eye color, it's many colors in one. Probably gonna change it to candy color since I'll most likely end up using candy instead.

Trevor is gonna be .5 life instead. Might change mana costs on all.

Gofar - This is my favorite design. Gonna work on a better execution. One thing to note "put a card outside the game" is intended to mean any card. So you could choose the 15th card down in their library or sideboard or exile.

Thanks again. Gonna work on these.

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spacemonaut
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Pith - Will dekeyword except fruit fight. Fruitfight was food fight originally and my Un set will have a food theme. I settled on fruit because you could "cheat" by using small fruity candy. Skittles would work. Or just put a bowl of cherries or raisins. Any of those would work. However, candy was my other idea. It would be easier and more clear. But I couldn't think of any wordplay for candy tho so I chose fruit haha. Also Pith is the "fibrous internal skin of fruit" so it's a pun.
I don't think there's anything "cheating" about that. Being nonspecific and using "food" just lets people use whatever food is suitable for them. That's not a bug, that's a feature. People are going to "cheat" anyway—if you say "candy" a diebetic will completely ignore your instructions and use something more suitable for them.

You had it right the first time, so I would say just use "Food", but you then have to contend with the fact Food now has an established mechanical identity and is expected to do that thing. (Unless you use the actual Food tokens but do new things with them, like "Sacrifice a Food: put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.")

Does your mechanic really have to be tied to physical edibles? I suggest you just create a normal token type for this. There's no compelling reason to use real life food and loads of complicated real life reasons to just not. Note again that the cards that do use real life food were specifically printed for a real-life holiday of which feasting and food are major components and to my knowledge that is not true of your set.
Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Trevor- So fruity came about because fruit tokens would be the color of whatever fruit you used to represent it. Like eye color, it's many colors in one. Probably gonna change it to candy color since I'll most likely end up using candy instead.
Fruit does not make "fruit" a color though. Actually for that matter, "eye color" is not a color either. It's just that Avatar of Me makes eye colors into game colors: we have blue, black, and green already, but now grey, brown, and hazel are also game colors in silver border.

Similarly if the color of food begins to matter then it becomes a game color too: orange, purple, etc.
Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Gofar - This is my favorite design. Gonna work on a better execution. One thing to note "put a card outside the game" is intended to mean any card. So you could choose the 15th card down in their library or sideboard or exile.
I don't think that will work very well. Sideboard's already outside the game. Cards aren't meant to interact with cards in exile they didn't put there. Exile is already meant to be the "remove from the game" zone. Can I suggest just "Choose a card from anywhere in that player's hand, library, or graveyard. Exile that card." or something like that?

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Post by user_938036 » 3 years ago

Pygyzy wrote:
3 years ago
Gofar - This is my favorite design. Gonna work on a better execution. One thing to note "put a card outside the game" is intended to mean any card. So you could choose the 15th card down in their library or sideboard or exile.
While this sounds fun it's a huge logistical problem and plays into why I said this was a problem in the hands of Spikes. With that addition there is essentially no cost to use this ability and it was a strong ability when the cost was your hand.

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Post by Pygyzy » 3 years ago

Pith, The Cranky 1WRG
Legendary Creature - Dragon Child
Foodfight (Fight damage dealt by creatures you control also causes you to create that many Food tokens.)
Whenever you're attacked, you may have any number of target creatures you control each fight another target attacking creature.
T: Creatures attack this turn if able.
Flap your arms like a bird: Pith gains flying until end of turn.
3/4

Bonus:

Pith Perfect W
Enchantment
Whenever you sacrifice a Food token, you may take a bite of a nontoken, noncard food you own. If you do, you may put two +.5/+.5 counters on target creature you control.

Fruitfight is scrapped for foodfight.

Arrgharrarrz, the Precocious 1UBR
Legendary Creature - Dragon Child
Superdupertrample (This creature deals it's combat damage to creatures blocking it as well as defending player as though it weren't blocked.)
At the beginning of combat on each players turn, that player chooses an opponent at random. Creatures they control must attack that player this combat if able.
If Argharrarrz would receive lethal damage, prevent that damage and transform him instead.
4/2
//
Arrgharrarrz, the Very Sorry
UBR Legendary Creature — Dragon Child
Chaste (This creature can't attack or block, and it's activated abilities can't be activated.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, an opponent asks you, "Do you promise to be good?". If you didn't attack during your last turn, you may say, "Arr, I promise to be good, matey." in a pirate voice. If you do, transform this.
0/6

Grossest, The Burper 1BRG
Legendary Creature - Dragon Child
Foul (This creature can't be blocked except by other gross creatures. Gross creatures include anything dead, goblins, and anything slimy.)
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, choose target nongross creature defending player controls. For as long as you control ~, gain control of that creature, it's name is Ooze, it loses all types and abilities, and becomes a 0/0 green Ooze creature with, "This creature gets +1/+1 for each gross creature you control."
2/2

Trevor, The Praised 1WUG
Legendary Creature - Dragon Child
Golden (Trevor is white, blue, black, red, and green.)
Trevor has protection from all color words opponents control. (Anything with a color word in it's text.)
Whenever Trevor deals combat damage to a player, you may say, "Isn't that precious?". If you do, gain 1 life for each color word among permanents.
3/3

Gofar, The Vanisher 1WUB
Legendary Creature - Dragon Child
Peek-a-boo (Opponents can't choose this creature.)
Phase out a card in your hand for the rest of the game, say "Where'd you go?": ~ phases out and remains phased out until you say "There you are!". Gofar can't phase in the same turn it phased out.
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, choose a noncommander card in their hand, library or graveyard. It phases out for the rest of the game.
2/4

This where they're at currently. Gofar should be more balanced.

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