MTGNexus Single Card Critique Thread/One Card at a Time

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void_nothing
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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

Blood Marker Vampire - This is an interesting idea - it's a new twist on something that's been seen in Magic several times before (the vampiric mind domination trope) with things like New Blood and Captivating Vampire - but it's far, far too wordy. Don't make the mistake of trying to capture more flavor with more clauses. The essence of this card is a vanishing-like ability that gives you control of the marked creatures and buffs the vamp when this happens, so strip it down to that:

"T: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls.
At the beginning of your upkeep, for each creature with a blood counter on it, put another blood counter on that creature. If that creature has three or more blood counters on it, remove them all and you gain control of that creature for as long as you control Blood Marker Vampire. Put a +1/+1 counter on Blood Marker Vampire."

And you can add "When Blood Marker Vampire leaves the battlefield, remove all..." etc, to reduce bookkeeping. "Tapdown" is not really a black ability so to cut down on wordiness, allow you to cost the card a little more aggressively, and remove color pie issues, I would delete it. This sort of thing is really already a bit of a bend in black, usually only allowable these days with Vampires just like how monored Phoenixes are still allowed to self-recur.
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
So I'm new to posting in the CCC section, nonetheless posting much on Nexus or before in Salvation in general, so I'm doing my best with critiquing... but let me know where I can improve. Similarly, I'm new to posting card concepts, but I probably have over 200 card concepts jotted down in various notebooks, so I'll be throwing some out here occasionally. Most came from deck plans of the past, but they are really kind of all over the place.
Welcome!! :)

Regarding your critiques: note that templating doesn't actually let us say "Tap all Hungry Hatchlings", because that's going to be referring to types. If we want names, we have to say so. See Cleric of the Forward Order for example.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Blood Marker Vampire 3BBB
Creature - Vampire (M)
Flying, Haste
: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls, then tap it. Creatures with blood counters do not untap as normal during the untap phase.
During your upkeep, put a blood counter on each creature with a blood counter on it. When a creature has three blood counters, remove the counters, gain control of the creature, and untap it. It gains the Vampire creature type and the color black. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Blood Marker Vampire for each creature you gained control of this way.
If Blood Marker Vampire leaves the battlefield, remove all blood counters from each creature and untap them. Then return each vampire creature to it's owner, and put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that changes controllers this way.
2/5

I'm open to all suggestions, including help with text wording and formatting, and organization. I have other name options of Vampire Recruiter, or Bloody Vampires if the artist leans towards multiple vampires. I know blood counters have been used before, so I don't know if this usage would cause any issues. I may also be aiming high with Mythic versus Rare, as it's ability to dominate a game is limited and delayed at best, unless a combo could abuse it. My first thought was 5cc (3BB) and a 3/3, but it seemed like it needed more heft and cost, and subsequently my gut started to push towards mythic status, but I'm second guessing it. Thoughts?
Our first stopping point: These abilities do not actually fit on a card. I've made a render below using mtg.design which is a meticulously accurate renderer. Even at its minimum possible font setting (18pt, a font size only seen on the wordiest of planeswalker cards) we wind up with the following:
2020-05-24_21-52-06_firefox.png
"Can't fit on a card" means either inefficient templating choices or that the card is doing too much.

Revising the templating

Some of the templating is incorrect, and some can be more efficient.
Flying, haste (Ed: Only the first keyword ability on the line gets capitalised.)
Creatures with blood counters don't untap during their controller's untap step. (Ed: A static ability has to be on its own line. Also, the "doesn't untap" templating looks like this.)
: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls. Tap it. (Ed: Shorter tap instruction.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a blood counter on each creature with a blood counter on it. (Ed: Fixed the trigger.)
When a creature has three or more blood counters, remove those counters from it. You gain control of that creature. Untap it. It becomes a black Vampire in addition to its other colors and types. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Blood Marker Vampire. (Ed: Fixed the templating. "N or more" counters. Fixed to the standard color+type template and the standard control-gain template.)
When Blood Marker Vampire leaves the battlefield, remove all blood counters from each creature and untap them. Then return each vampire creature to it's owner, and put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that changes controllers this way. (Ed: This is a triggered ability, so it's a "when". This "return control" effect also isn't idiomatic—you can't "return control"—but we're also about to delete it so I won't change it yet.)
Cards have three types of abilities: static abilities, activated abilities, and triggered abilities.

Static abilities just make something true: you can't just stick it on the end of an activated ability line.

Triggered abilities must start with "When/whenever/at (event), (effect)." You can't start them with "during".

A static ability can define a replacement effect, in which case it says "If (thing would happen), instead (another thing happens)." Your last ability is not a replacement effect (it doesn't say "instead" or replace the event) so it has to be a triggered ability and thus say "When".

Actually, that last ability isn't strictly necessary, Magic gives us a shorter way to do this: the "gain control for as long as" template. This one's also correct because "returning control" isn't a thing: you can only have existing continuous effects expire or create new "gain control" effects (see Homeward Path). Let's stick that continuous ability back on the end of the activated ability.
Flying, haste
Creatures with blood counters don't untap during their controller's untap step.
: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls. Tap it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a blood counter on each creature with a blood counter on it.
When a creature has three or more blood counters, remove those counters from it. You gain control of that creature for as long as you control Blood Marker Vampire. Untap it. It becomes a black Vampire in addition to its other colors and types. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Blood Marker Vampire.
When Blood Marker Vampire leaves the battlefield, remove all blood counters from all creatures. each creature and untap them. Then return each vampire creature to it's owner, and put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that changes controllers this way.
Control now automatically returns, and we don't need to spontaneously untap everything. I've dropped the "they get a +1/+1 counter" bit since that would take an insane amount of wording to template properly and it isn't worth it.

The "gain control" ability gets really weird if multiple players control one of these vampires: all of them trigger simultaneously in APNAP and all of them wrest control of the same creature, with the active player winding up in final control. This really needs to be revised to be an activated ability, but I'm not going to do that because there's lots of problems still.

Previously the vampires all played poorly with each other: if you control multiple, even one dying resets every vampire creature to its owner's control. Every single one. Even vampires you gained control of other ways such as via New Blood. Even vampires your opponents gain control of. That's an anti-synergy. Now they still play poorly in multiples, but only via that "remove all blood counters" thing that resets all progress so far if any single one of them dies.

Okay, so, we've done all that. Let's also recombine the first static ability into the activated ability with proper templating, and shorten the name to "Bloodmark Sire", and delete the last ability altogether as an anti-synergy. Then it technically barely fits:
2020-05-24_22-38-44_firefox.png
However, when I say "just barely", I mean that's at 23pt. For comparison Animate Dead is at 28pt and already pretty much pushing the limits. This is tiny.

Image

So, it definitely does too much

What does it do then?

- It's a hasty 2/5 flier for 6 (probably turn 6-7).
- It has a repeatable permanent imprison effect that lasts until you gain control of the creature.
- It gains control of creatures. If you focus on one creature, you'll get control of it during your next turn (turn 7-8) and since it doesn't have haste you can attack with it the turn after (turn 8-9). If you divide your focus among different creatures, it takes an additional turn to gain control of the first one you picked. (you first attack with it turn 9-10).
- It gets stronger when you gain control of those creatures (but not sooner).

This is actually kind of underwhelming. The stats are pretty low for a flier, but we won't be using it as one because we'll be tapping it to put blood counters on things. The prison effect is likely a color pie break or severe bend: that seems more blue or white, but I guess we've seen it before in Xathrid Gorgon as a type of pseudo-destroy.

Gaining control of just a single creature can be done faster in vampire colors with New Blood or Olivia Voldaren. Olivia comes out on turn 4 and lets us gain control of any creature immediately for 4RBB, which is only 1 mana more than Blood Marker Vampire costs to summon at all. We can do better.

But there's also the Multiple Blood Marker Vamipres problem which definitely suggests we need change.

I don't know what direction you want to go in this card, but I suggest you streamline it down to something like this:
Bloodmark Vampire 3BB
Creature — Vampire Knight (M)
Haste
B, T: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls. Tap it. Put a +1/+1 counter on Bloodmark Vampire.
2B, T: Gain control of target creature with a blood counter on it. It becomes a black Vampire in addition to its other colors and types. Remove all blood counters from it.
4/4
(I also gave it the Knight class because something about it gives me Knight vibes.)
Last edited by spacemonaut 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by BOVINE » 3 years ago

You change the name in the quote tags. I don't think I wrote that.
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

BOVINE wrote:
3 years ago
You change the name in the quote tags. I don't think I wrote that.
Oops, you're right. I'm not sure how I managed that. Fixed.
void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
Jailer's Chant 1W
Enchantment
When this permanent enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at end of turn.
Splice onto creature 1W (As you cast a creature spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's abilities to that creature spell. That creature keeps these abilities as it enters the battlefield.)
So this is a damn clever way to use splice but I really don't think the name fits - blink, even with a delayed return, doesn't say "jail" to me. Banisher Priest does.

Could this card have flash?
I agree with you on the name, now that you mention it.

Adding flash would be a great move. I was feeling like something was missing: there's very little reason to cast it as an Enchantment because you might have creatures available, so you might never play it "just in case". But making the Enchantment instant speed gives you a solid reason to consider it.

Edit: Actually, I can't give this flash. :'( The Flash would be granted to every spliced creature, which would be busted. (601.3 doesn't currently anticipate this scenario, but would almost certainly be expanded to include it.) I guess I'll stick with sorcery-speed flicker, alas.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
Jailer's Chant 1W
Enchantment
When this permanent enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at end of turn.
Splice onto creature 1W (As you cast a creature spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's abilities to that creature spell. That creature keeps these abilities as it enters the battlefield.)
First, you forgot to add it's rarity, which would determine relative casting cost. I like the card otherwise. I might change the text to add "spell" in "Splice onto creature [spell] 1W" But it looks good otherwise. I like splicing it onto a creature spell, but it might be too accessible...? Might be too strong in that respect, so the casting cost and rarity would be relative to this.
"Splice onto instant or sorcery" and "Splice onto Arcane" don't say "spell", but you're right that this might warrant it anyway so that players don't try to splice onto creatures that are already on the battlefield. Not that this would matter for this particular card, but might matter for other "splice onto creature spell" effects, like those with static abilities instead.

I'm not certain whether it would be uncommon or rare, and at this point I'd probably go with "whichever lets it have these costs" since higher splice costs would be prohibitive.

Let's go revision power! I also just noticed I got the slow flicker templating wrong.

Mistward Chant 1W
Enchantment (U)
When this permanent enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Splice onto creature spell 1W (As you cast a creature spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's abilities to that creature spell. That creature keeps these abilities as it enters the battlefield.)




Just for some bookkeeping: The most recent new card at this stage is technically Blood Marker Vampire which has also received critiques at the top of this page, and before that Hungry Hatchlings which received critique in the post following it.

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

Quickly, thanks for the great feedback! Much appreciated! I'll update it on here when I have a few extra minutes. Thanks! :)
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

Thinking out loud... the cost of one mana for one damage isn't anything crazy in red, with tons of X cost burn spells, and firebreathing, etc. So why is it so taboo for a land to both tap for one red or tap for one damage to a creature or any target? I mean the closest cards are Keldon Megaliths, Blighted Gorge, Balduvian Trading Post, Desert, and Spitfire Bastion/Vance's Blasting Cannons... so why can't red just have a straight non-ETB-tapped, tap for 1 damage to any target, or tap for one red, and be mythic or rare? It either gets used for mana or 1 damage, but not both, and no more than 1 damage without getting untapped. It's good, but limited. Sure, it's not combo-proof. Costing one red plus the tap would limit it's combo-ability. But make it, let it get banned, let the game force it out. Would it be a game-changer? Would something like that get banned...? I also expect something so obvious to have been offered among you guys before, but if not, I'll happily claim the card slot...

But seriously, is that too good of a card? I don't feel like it is, but I honestly don't know all the cards out there, and all the possible combos that could be. Sorry to not critique and keep the chain going... but this one has been bugging me for a while, and I don't know who better to discuss it with.
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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

Because lands cost no mana, and furthermore utility lands are generally EXTREMELY powerful because they combine in one card slot the functionalities of a land and a spell. That means far too much repeatable removal for far too cheap.

Remember, you don't need to have any red mana costs in your land to play a land that taps for R. Every color having the ability to ping for free is not a good thing for the health of a format. If a land was printed that had the exact ability of Prodigal Pyromancer, then ANY 1-toughness creatures could effectively no longer be played in any format that land would be legal in.

Another thing more generally is that lands are generally not printed that are directly better than (non-Wastes) basic lands. Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers and its cycle were allowed because they have the (extremely minor) drawback of being legendary, and still are mostly powerful cards that see play in Commander decks despite the small scale of their utility abilities.
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

Also on burn lands: Red Deck Wins, a deck that plays nothing but burn cards and mountains, can eventually runs out of cards to actually cast and see its creatures die. But with a burn land, they can continue burning their opponent turn after turn for the low price of ... playing a land.

Ramunap Ruins was banned in standard because it was so inevitable, and had so little opportunity cost, that it effectively said "your opponent starts the game at 18 (maybe 16) life". Red burn is fine with using it for colorless and will not care about paying 1 life for red mana; its singular game plan is to defeat you before that matters anyway.


Speaking of mana, absolutely ages ago I made this card. How would you assess it?
fogy23 50pc.jpg
Bloodvaults of Razaketh 1B
Artifact (MR)
, Put a charge counter on Bloodvaults of Razaketh: Add to your mana pool for each charge counter on Bloodvaults of Razaketh.
At the beginning of your end step, you lose life equal to the number of charge counters on Bloodvaults of Razaketh.
(It needs to not say "to your mana pool" nowadays of course.)

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

I would say that Bloodvaults of Razaketh is too powerful. It ramps too fast, and the cost of life isn't likely enough to outweigh the sheer benefit of almost doubling your total mana from land each turn (assuming you can drop a land each turn). If I were to make any changes, the drawback or penalty of/for use needs to be more, or that this needs to have a limited number of uses... like after three or four counters it's sacrificed. Even allowing four uses might be too much, as that's a total of 10 mana produced over four turns for the small cost of 2cc... plus, of course, 10 life too, but that 8 extra mana should be able to win the game before the 10 lost life matters enough. If you drop this on T2, and drop a land on every turn, on T5 you can tap for 9 mana (after 7 on T4, and 5 on T3). The advantages are well worth the loss of life.

While I would call that card broken, I wouldn't call a land broken that enters untapped, taps for , or pay and tap to deal 1 damage (I realize my first question didn't require for the damage). I would call it strong, but not broken. It doesn't win a game by itself. Remove the cost of and I get the brokenness of such a card with the potential to be untapped and tapped repeatedly. But say you have to choose between putting one extra land in your deck (for whatever reason one slot is open), and you have to choose between Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle or the new land:

Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (M)
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target.

Yes, it's strong, but which is stronger? Valakut might not trigger until T7, but you can still tap it for every turn except the one you drop it, and requires no cost to deal damage once it's triggering. Volcanic Plume, on the other hand, essentially requires 2cc to deal one damage, which is expensive (it's kinda like casting Shock, but only doing half of one damage...), and not conducive to winning fast, or tap for . Without a combo to break it, I'm just not seeing the crazy value that keeps it from getting printed. Strong, yes, but not broken, right? If I draw a land, and the best I can do is tap two lands to deal one damage, that's a %$#% turn.... and not a game changer by any means. Sure, it can repeatedly knock out creatures with a toughness of 1, but so what? That's the risk you run with playing creatures that weak, and there are TONS of cards that tap to deal one damage, so it's not like this is a game breaking concept. And if it still is too powerful, then maybe add that if a creature dies this way, it's controller investigates. Let's not forget that while it's black, cards like Do or Die exist as well, asking the real value of a creature, versus the cost of removing them. (I love that card.)

But say we don't have the cost to deal 1 damage, and it just taps to deal it. We'll call it Volcanic Plumerias.


Volcanic Plumerias
Legendary Land (M)
:Add .
: Volcanic Plumerias deals 1 damage to any target.

Without the high potential to combo this, standing by itself, it still won't win a game by itself. Powerful, sure, but not game changing. (BTW, what would you use to infinite combo this? Just curious...)

That being said, I do get the idea of not making a land that is stronger than a basic land on the drop... that I can hang with, conceptually, requiring some kind of drawback to level out the card's power. I get that. And for that reason alone I can understand it coming in tapped, or maybe ETB and you lose 2 life or something. But I don't think Volcanic Plume, as above, would realistically be so broken that it would dramatically change the scope of running mono-red decks. But I admit I'm not as experienced in all this as everyone else here, so I'm just trying to grasp why certain limitations exist...
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

Ha! Now I feel like I have to submit an updated version of the land concept... so why not... this is the "dumbed down" version, adding ETB-tapped, investigate, and the Legendary type. But I'm not sure if this is uncommon or rare territory, because it doesn't feel mythic to me. Which begs the question, what change(s) would be acceptable that would push this into mythic territory? If mythic, I'm thinking it makes sense to make it legendary, which means removing one or both of the other additions. And while I added legendary, I would remove it if the cards below went otherwise unchanged.

Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plume enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, it's controller investigates. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")

Or...

Volcanic Plumerias
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plumerias enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plumerias deals 1 damage to any target. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, it's controller investigates. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
If Volcanic Plumerias is tapped more than three times in a turn, destroy it.

Although I feel weird adding text about tapping it too many times when it's not built into the card to do that on its own. Thoughts?

And let me know if I'm not formatting this correctly for land...
Last edited by CamraMaan 3 years ago, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
Mistward Chant 1W
Enchantment (U)
When this permanent enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Splice onto creature spell 1W (As you cast a creature spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's abilities to that creature spell. That creature keeps these abilities as it enters the battlefield.)
One quick comment about the last sentence... since this is a one time effect that ends with the turn, does it need to become a permanent addition to the creature? As a mechanic template, I can understand it if other similar spells that splice onto creature spells will have repeatable effects/abilities that warrant it, but at least in this example it seems unnecessary... no?
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

And for my own records more than anything, here's my updated Bloodmark Sire (I like the name change).

Bloodmark Sire 3BB
Creature — Vampire Knight (R)
Haste
B, T: Put a blood counter on target creature an opponent controls. Tap it. Put a +1/+1 counter on Bloodmark Vampire.
2B, T: Gain control of target creature with a blood counter on it. It becomes a black Vampire in addition to its other colors and types. Remove all blood counters from it. It gains haste until end of turn.
4/4

I will say that I didn't realize it, but in my original concept I think I was in the EDH zone of only having one copy in a deck, but I like these changes for all the reasons mentioned by you guys above, especially because it makes this less pigeon-holed into EDH. I also changed it from mythic to rare, and added haste to the transitioned creatures. Does this feel like it should be rare...? And again, thanks for the awesome help! I might end up around here somewhat often... :)

Unless further changes seem warranted, Bloodmark Sire might be close to done enough for me (at least for now... until I get into card templating, etc).
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedback on Bloodvaults. Definitely seems busted. : )
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
Mistward Chant 1W
Enchantment (U)
When this permanent enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. Return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Splice onto creature spell 1W (As you cast a creature spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's abilities to that creature spell. That creature keeps these abilities as it enters the battlefield.)
One quick comment about the last sentence... since this is a one time effect that ends with the turn, does it need to become a permanent addition to the creature? As a mechanic template, I can understand it if other similar spells that splice onto creature spells will have repeatable effects/abilities that warrant it, but at least in this example it seems unnecessary... no?
The intention for this card was to explore the design space of splicing onto a permanent. Yes, it could be done without splicing.



On red burn lands:

Keldon Megaliths shows us it's ostensibly okay to put burn on a land. However it should definitely be restricted, and it should be gated behind red mana to not break color pie. Remember, we're putting a repeatable effect that costs no cards and on a difficult-to-remove permanent type. Ramunap Ruins was banned in Standard and we should be mindful when creating a card more accessible and repeatable than that one.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (M)
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target.
This one's OK, but might get banned. It's an auto-include in burn decks. I'd even play it as a 4-of for Shrine to Nyx type shenanigans: tap a Volcanic Plume for burn, play a new one as my land drop for the turn, remove the old one, and tap the new one for burn as well.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plume enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, it's controller investigates. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
This version gates the burn behind having access to red mana, which is the correct move. However this gives red easy access to Investigate, which is probably out of pie: red has zero access to investigate. Just ping a goblin or any other creature of your own that's about to die in combat.

Putting it this way, the following land would be a color break in red:
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
2R, T: Draw a card.
(No "sacrifice a creature" since we're pinging a creature that was dying anyway.)
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Volcanic Plumerias
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plumerias enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plumerias deals 1 damage to any target. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, it's controller investigates. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
If Volcanic Plumerias is tapped more than three times in a turn, destroy it.
This grants access to pinging to any color, which gives us the problem void_nothing talked about. To any other color pretend this reads ": Add " for the mana ability.

Templating: The "if" here starts a replacement effect, but doesn't provide an "instead". You need to actually replace something or define it as a triggered ability. Note that if I'm tapping this land more than three times a turn, I probably have found a way to go infinite, and I will probably be playing over the top of the triggered ability. That suggests the burn would probably need to be sorcery speed.

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
The intention for this card was to explore the design space of splicing onto a permanent. Yes, it could be done without splicing.
With the new usage of tokens for added abilities, maybe you could do something similar, adding a token granting the spliced spell's ability to the creature? Kinda like creating multiple enchantments out of one, using splicing. Maybe combine splicing and imprint, imprinting abilities onto the created token for the creature? If it's going to last multiple turns, I feel like there needs to be something permanent that stays with the card, and can be removed, etc. A one-time-effect splice onto a creature spell doesn't require any level of permanence in the wording though. But if it's adding a trigger for every time it attacks, then that should probably be represented with an enchantment token or something. Just brainstorming...

And I appreciate the great feedback as well! I wasn't thinking about Investigates colors, and how that would give red easy access, which makes sense for dumping it. I'm actually thinking of just making it one damage to any target, and and 1 to me.

Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plume enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target and 1 damage to you.

And if that's not enough, I could add "If a creature dies this way, Volcanic Plume deals 2 damage to you instead." but I'd prefer not to, if it's otherwise within the realm of acceptible...
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
With the new usage of tokens for added abilities, maybe you could do something similar, adding a token granting the spliced spell's ability to the creature? Kinda like creating multiple enchantments out of one, using splicing. Maybe combine splicing and imprint, imprinting abilities onto the created token for the creature? If it's going to last multiple turns, I feel like there needs to be something permanent that stays with the card, and can be removed, etc. A one-time-effect splice onto a creature spell doesn't require any level of permanence in the wording though. But if it's adding a trigger for every time it attacks, then that should probably be represented with an enchantment token or something. Just brainstorming...
You're right about tracking issues. Those might be why I wrote it with an ETB ability. You're right, multiple turn stuff on "splice onto permanent" needs a solution -- which short of support from punchout cards probably limits its design space to effects that only matter for a turn (like haste and ETB effects). Aura tokens would be a different moving part that would necessitate a different mechanic, but could be neat.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plume enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target and 1 damage to you.
That's neat, and workable. Granted, "1 damage to you" might not be a huge drawback: if I'm playing RDW, I'm fine with dealing damage to myself. I just have to deal slightly more damage to you. Note RDW decks often play Eidolon of the Great Revel versus control decks despite playing almost exclusively spells with CMC 1-3 themselves: they'll get burned a lot, but you'll get burned too if you try to counter any of their spells or remove any of their permanents. The only thing that matters to a burn deck is that the opponent's life total hits 0 before their own does and with the maximum possible mana:damage efficiency.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
And if that's not enough, I could add "If a creature dies this way, Volcanic Plume deals 2 damage to you instead." but I'd prefer not to, if it's otherwise within the realm of acceptible...
The "if...instead" here implies a replacement effect.

Replacement effects 101: they look for an event and replace it with a different event such that the original event doesn't actually happen. Here you're looking at the "dies" event, and replacing it with "you are dealt damage", meaning the creature won't die at all and instead of the creature dying you take 2 damage. I don't think you mean to do that.

I think you're looking for the triggered ability template "When a creature dealt damage this way dies this turn".

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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

I had a weird dream a few nights ago and when I woke up decided to put part of it into a card:

Lightning Jaguar 2RGW
(Art: a three-headed nekoru, electricity spilling from its mouths)
Creature — Cat Dragon
Lifelink, haste
Whenever Lightning Jaguar attacks, it deals 2 damage to each of up to two targets.
3/3

Something I am stuck on: despite the green I felt was right to put in the cost, the abilities and types all fit squarely into just red and white and the PT is appropriate for those colors too. Should I recost it or change it? I'm not sure how I would cost if it were just red and white; it feels like needing access to three colors is a decent balancing factor against its strength. I could make its PT bigger but that also increases the amount of lifegain.

Others mentioned to me it would be justified RGW if it was part of a cycle, and I'd be satisfied with that. But I'm also curious how others feel: how would you cost it? What colors would you put it into? Or, if you wouldn't change the cost (and would keep it RGW), would you change anything to justify that cost or would you leave it as-is?

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
And if that's not enough, I could add "If a creature dies this way, Volcanic Plume deals 2 damage to you instead." but I'd prefer not to, if it's otherwise within the realm of acceptible...
The "if...instead" here implies a replacement effect.

Replacement effects 101: they look for an event and replace it with a different event such that the original event doesn't actually happen. Here you're looking at the "dies" event, and replacing it with "you are dealt damage", meaning the creature won't die at all and instead of the creature dying you take 2 damage. I don't think you mean to do that.

I think you're looking for the triggered ability template "When a creature dealt damage this way dies this turn".
Good point. I'm seeing three directions/options from here: leave it as it is, or add text to deal the controller an extra damage if a creature dies, OR do that extra damage plus one damage to the creature's controller. So my question is if that's doing too much on the card, or maybe it's too powerful if it does an extra damage to the creature's controller, and two total to me? That's four total damage from one land tap, which just seems excessive. My gut says to keep it as is... one to any target, one to me. Keeping it as is, should that be rare, or mythic...?

Volcanic Plume
Legendary Land (R)
Volcanic Plume enters the battlefield tapped.
:Add .
: Volcanic Plume deals 1 damage to any target and 1 damage to you.

Unless mythic, this would be down for now.

And regarding your Bloodvaults of Razaketh, I thought it might make sense to compare it to Lotus Blossom and Empowered Autogenerator, which are similar in enough ways. Empowered Generator kinda makes me think your concept isn't necessarily too powerful, since it's limited to black, and deals damage for the service, which makes the 2cc somewhat justifiable. So I guess I'm changing my opinion that it was defacto too powerful. If needed you could have it ETB tapped, or raise it to 3cc.
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
Lightning Jaguar 2RGW
(Art: a three-headed nekoru, electricity spilling from its mouths)
Creature — Cat Dragon
Lifelink, haste
Whenever Lightning Jaguar attacks, it deals 2 damage to each of up to two targets.
3/3
I like it! I get the urge to keep green, but I'm not sure it's necessary either. While haste works with red, maybe swap it for trample...? Or just simply add trample, and keep haste...? Or maybe no trample and just change the casting cost to 2RRW...? I like it though! :)


Assuming my Volcanic Plume is retiring for now, I came up with this guy last night...

The Prince W
Creature - Human Noble (R)
You are the monarch while The Prince is on the battlefield.
2/1

Pretty simple, nothing crazy. Thoughts?

EDIT: I just realized being the monarch is meant to be temporary, and has to be able to switch players easily via other cards, and this card basically tries to make into an unchangeable designation. So scrap it...
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

So I just came up with this one to kind of fill a need in a deck. Let me know what you think...

Jace's Migraine 2U
Instant (R)
Counter target spell that targets you, or a spell or permanent you control.
You may pay 1 life for each 1 of the casting cost.
"The migraine grew so bad that it pushed all the mana in the air around him away, forming a protective barrier around his struggling, incapacitated body."

Not sure about the best wording on the life payment. Basically this is another version of Swan Song, primarily targeting instants, sorceries, and enchantments, but only the ones that target you or your spells or permanents. It's easily castable for one blue with the life loss drawback, or pay a little extra if you have the extra mana.

So, is the life loss necessary...? Could this fly with no drawback at all and cost U...? While it's similar to Swan Song, it's not as encompassing, so the drawback should at least be less, assuming we're keeping it rare. Maybe make it 1U? Or keep it 2U but make it uncommon? Or 3U and uncommon...? Thoughts?
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

Ability ordering: Abilities that modify a spell while it's on the stack come first on the card. Flash, "This spell can't be countered", or in this case a cost modifier.

Cost: If we look at existing counterspells, our closest reference points are: Hindering Light, Turn Aside, Keep Safe, Psychic Rebuttal. I'd suggest making your spell cost 1U, or 2U and a cantrip and uncommon.

If you want to go with the life payment, our indicative template would be that used in the CR on Delve, Convoke, and Improvise: "For each generic mana in this spell's total cost, you may tap an untapped artifact you control rather than pay that mana." / "For each generic mana in this spell's total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana." / etc. This is wordy because it's in the CR so they don't have to make it more efficient, but it says your template is on the right track.

"For each in this spell's casting cost, you may pay 1 life instead."

Consider an alternative cost? "You may pay and 2 life rather than pay this spell's mana cost." That wouldn't work if you've got cost increasers in the set to worry about.

Template: I suggest leave out the comma or spell it out more fully. "Counter target spell that targets you or a spell or permanent you control." or "Counter target spell that targets you, a spell you control, or a permanent you control."



Serving suggestion:

Jace's Migraine 2U
Instant
For each in this spell's casting cost, you may pay 1 life instead.
Counter target spell that targets you or a spell or permanent you control.

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

I appreciate the suggestions! On the cost, since this is an upgrade over (or alternative to) Swan Song, I felt if it was going to be cast for u it should have a viable drawback, and adding the cantrip would make it too much value for the casting cost. Although I could see adding a card draw if this was up to 3u. As it is it's a pretty comprehensive counter spell for protecting you and any of your shenanigans if you want to run a combo... it counters any discarding, sacrificing, counter spells, removal, prison enchantments, etc... Swan Song is the only other card that can do that for u, and it gives them a 2/2 flyer, which isn't insignificant... so while I want to make it a stronger card, I don't want it to be too broken. But the more I think about it, the more I'm liking the 3u and card draw changes.

Jace's Migraine 3U
Instant (R)
For each 1 in this spell's casting cost, you may pay 1 life instead.
Counter target spell that targets you or a spell or permanent you control.
Draw a card.
"The migraine grew so bad that it pushed all the mana in the air around him away, forming a protective barrier around his struggling, incapacitated body."

Regarding rarity, to contrast to Swan Song, it's 2/2 flyer is being replaced by the loss of 2 mana/life, and then drawing the card is costing another 1 mana/life. It seems like eliminating the 2/2 flyer and drawing the card for only 2 mana/life would be too good.... no? So as it is, it seems like being rare is fitting.

And because it was on my mind before you mentioned Keep Safe, I was thinking about a small adaptation to the card, making it...

Keeping Safer 1U
Instant (U)
Counter target spell that targets a permanent.
Draw a card.

This doubles it's effect, preventing them from targetting their own creatures/etc too, which would make it a lot more flexible, and even more powerful with that card draw.
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Post by Morpic_Tide » 3 years ago

Ordinarily, permanent-targeting would be a fine restriction for a 1u counter, but also having it cantrip is very nasty work. An alternative that comes to mind would be 2u or uu and giving the targeted permanent Shroud until end of turn, better in many ways but preventing you from using any Unsummon effect on it, or harder removal, until the turn ends. Has downside states, so staying at two mana for a Shroud version despite the cantrip should work out.

As per my previous habits on MTG Salvation, I'll mostly continue with the cross-posting of game-thread stuff:

Dormivolver 1rr
Creature - Volver
Kicker 1w and/or 2u
Haste
If Dormivolver was kicked with its 1w kicker, it enters the battlefield with a First Strike counter and you may tap up to one creature.
If Dormivolver was kicked with its 2u kicker, it enters the battlefield with a Flying counter and target permanent doesn't untap at the start of its controller's untap step.
3/2

---

The thought process here was essentially having the Kickers make a passable creature of that overall cost, even if it isn't a good creature, based on added effects that are somewhat on-theme for that pair compensating for the lack of P/T bonuses. The White kicker essentially makes it so one creature can't block, and the Dormivolver can't be gotten rid of with a single chump, while the Blue kicker can lock out a blocker the next turn after it's been tapped naturally and makes it require a rarer breed of blocker.

Doing both results in a very low return on stats for damage, but can often be six damage you wouldn't get otherwise unless you're facing heavy control or a mountain of flyers, and even then freezing a big Angel or Sphinx to leave just a big wall of 1/1 Spirits or Birds means you're either chipping away blockers without losing anything, or you occupy six blockers with one card for the rest of your board to get through.

Seems a passable choice in some form of Jeskai ambush or duck-and-cover deck, because it's early fast damage, while picking up valuable keywords as a midgame card, and topdecking it endgame gives potential for good last-second reach as it can remove a blocker for two turns. The keep-tapped is probably most relevant against ramp decks, as you can freeze a flying dork or aura ramp to stall their mana acceleration, but even against regular decks, you can benefit from stalling out a land.

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

Much appreciated on the feedback! The shroud concept makes sense as a better way to go, along with the UU cost. Also changing the name, since it's shifting from counter magic to shroud/protection magic.

Jace's Guile UU
Instant (U)
Target permanent gains shroud until end of turn.
Draw a card.

Regarding Dormivolver, it's not going to be used in many fast decks, but I do like the idea! I'm not a wording technician, but my gut says the ending of the blue kicker might need a little revision. But it packs value, it packs flexibility of both function and pace/timing impact, and while it's certainly not a high-value creature at 8cc for the full punch, it does enough that if you can afford it, you're getting some decent advantage for a turn or two (pending the depth of their board). My gut also says this is an uncommon as currently designed. I dig it though!

I came up with this one last night, more for fun than any real purpose... but it could change game dynamics quite a bit, as simple as it is.

The Third Void 2U
Enchantment (U?)
Counter the third spell to resolve during each player's turn. Any player may pay 2 to prevent this.

I don't think it's going to be easy to break, and should be manipulatable by any player to screw over other players at the table. It's primarily going to mess with control or removal spells, but it can hurt you too, so it's definitely not one-sided. Adds value to cheap instant spells that can add protection to your first spell, etc. But the timing of being the third to resolve can also get weird if enough spells get on the stack, resolving in reverse order (again adding value to cheap spells to add to the stack). This is more of a wrench to throw into the gears of the game than anything. Also, I'm not sure if it's possible to have the second part or not...? Like in terms of the timing of the stack, can this be inserted into the stack to allow a player to pay the fee and let the spell go through...? I just don't know enough about the exact rules on that kind of thing. Still learning. Always "still learning" this game, it seems.
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Post by spacemonaut » 3 years ago

"Counter the third spell to resolve" doesn't really make sense. If it's resolving, it's a bit late to start countering it, isn't it?

I think you're looking for: "Whenever the third spell is cast each turn, counter it unless its controller pays ."

As a mono-blue control player, I'd use this as follows: when the player casts their first spell each turn, I counter it. That's two spells down. When that player plays their next spell, it's the third spell this turn, so that gets countered too unless they pay extra for it. Safe to say this might make people miserable. I'll play this in a draw-go deck where I'm at most casting one or two things during my own turn, so it's not going to be my own spells getting countered.

You say "it's primarily going to mess with control or removal spells, but it can hurt you too, so it's definitely not one-sided" and I disagree. :P
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
This is more of a wrench to throw into the gears of the game than anything.
When you design a card, be clear on who you're designing it for. This card isn't going to magically manifest on the battlefield—someone is going to include it in their deck, build with it, and play it for a reason. Be mindful of who is using your card and why and design it for them or their gameplan.
CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
Always "still learning" this game, it seems.
Definitely not just you.

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

spacemonaut wrote:
3 years ago
"Counter the third spell to resolve" doesn't really make sense. If it's resolving, it's a bit late to start countering it, isn't it?

I think you're looking for: "Whenever the third spell is cast each turn, counter it unless its controller pays ."
I think you're right. I thought about both, and for a bit thought it would be fun to try and give it the optional/potential reverse-order-on-the-stack dilemma, but I had a feeling it would be breaking a rule to do it, at least as I had it written. But the more I think about it, after reading it as you have it, I think you're right. But this brings up another possibility, being the possibility of making it counter the third effect (spell or ability), or only target spells, or only target abilities... and I like it covering any effect, honestly, any nonland and/or non-mana generating effect. But is this going too crazy though...? Right now I think so, but I would change it if urged. Hint hint.

So at the moment I have:

The Third Void 2U
Enchantment (U?)
Whenever the third spell is cast each turn, counter it unless its controller pays 2.

The other question is if it should stay at 2, or only be 1, or none with a hard counter...? And is the casting cost of 2U appropriate? Part of me likes the idea of being able to get it out T2, with a 1U or UU cost. It's primarily relevant T3 and beyond anyway, so is it too cheap at 1U? Or should it even go up to 3U?

And I appreciate the feedback! :)
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