MTGNexus Single Card Critique Thread/One Card at a Time

Morpic_Tide
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Post by Morpic_Tide » 3 years ago

Hmm... The first ability has me annoyed about the imprecision of reference, as the targeting clause doesn't seem to maintain continuity with the result, and worse it makes up to six separate triggers. My most immediate thought was "Each creature tapped to Convoke ~ fights target creature you don't control", but that wording sets a single target. "Each creature tapped to Convoke ~ may fight a target creature you don't control" might work? On a balance standpoint, the effect is difficult to rate. While we're talking a six-mana card here, it's in Green and specifically tied to Convoke, so one will be trivially capable of activating this on turn 4 to blow out enemy boards a lot of the time.

The second ability doesn't "feel" right as the defense of a Mythic, partly because it's all-or-nothing and partly because it cares only for damage. You can't chip off just enough damage to avoid death, you have to have enough creatures to cancel all of it, and it does nothing about Toughness reduction, kill spells, Exilers, or anything else, and the return on investment is terrible compared to the likes of Dream Trawler's full Hexproof for a single card. Definitely needs to be gradual if this is supposed to be a threat of any kind for being on the board, and then something more. Whether that's a pseudo-Hexproof property, giving mana for doing it, or being a general effect of allowing creatures you control to tap to prevent damage.

Even with making the damage prevention gradual and thus sensible to use without extreme token flooding, it isn't "doing" anything on the board beyond being sticky with Green bigness. No method to get past blockers, no method to demand more. Provoke would be the most straightforward, following quite directly from the Fights trigger, letting it pick off creatures remarkably safely when you would otherwise not be able to swing in.

The final thing I'll note is that mass Fight really don't suit Selesnya, nor does it cleanly fit with Convoke's main fluff. The above-mentioned generalizing of the damage prevention would almost demand it be in Selesnya colors and work alongside the force-fight, but if leaning into the aggressive side of Green with the Fight trigger, one might rework it as a Gruul-primary card, costing some Red mana and allowing straight-up attacking of creatures tapped for some variety of-non-combat purpose as its ongoing benefit. This is, however, exclusively a fluff concern, not a mechanical criticism.

Finally moving on to the card I'll bring forward for criticism, have a bit of resuscitation of ideas I've had in the past, fixing to more specifically fit the "template" and :

Spellfire Phoenix 2u
Creature - Phoenix
Flying
When Spellfire Phoenix enters the battlefield, you may cast target Instant or Sorcery spell with converted mana cost equal to or less than the total of and spent on Spellfire Phoenix from your graveyard until end of turn.
Spellfire Phoenix enters the battlefield with a Prowess counter on it if you cast it from your hand.
Unearth Xrr
2/2

So far covered White/Black, Green/Blue, and Blue/Red with this attempt at a cycle, leaving Black/Green and Red/White. Changes are downing the costs by one colored mana each to match the other two, reducing Power by one, adding "this turn" to the recursion text because good lord could that open problems, and changing the not-doing-what-it's-supposed-to Hexproof on hand-cast to the innovation of keyword counters to keep track of things, in this case Prowess so you'll be profiting from using the spells still in your hand.

Needing to pay for the spell separately makes this starkly limited in options to "break" it, as you're facing a surcharge of 3 or CMC to get the recast. Against Snapcaster Mage, it has harsher costs to enable, doesn't have Flash, and is limited to at most the mana you put into it provided your manabase is all Izzit colors, but the creature has Flying and one more toughness, with the initial hand-cast giving Prowess, so it acts as a potential threat itself.

...Having gone over some numbers for demonstration, the thing is an incredibly nasty potential inclusion in Prowess decks, especially if running Thud and Mutagenic Growth. The access to paying 2ru and 4 life for nine damage to face and three Prowess triggers is a rather nasty combo, though this requires getting one of each in hand making it a 4/4/4 combo in a deck archetype that's actually low in card draw.
Last edited by Morpic_Tide 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by OneAndOnly » 3 years ago

First, it's "Phoenix." E after O, or else you'll have woe -- remember?

The card's very busy, with several different keywords working on it in different directions. It's telling, for example, that your own commentary doesn't mention it having unearth. I'm not certain what the X in the unearth cost is for. I would drop it, and make it a non-phoenix creature (maybe an elemental or a weird).

Similarly, "this turn" isn't needed for the triggered ability, because every time it's cast, it's an entirely new object with no memory of what's happened before. You could get around this by making it "the total of U or R spent to cast Phoenix creatures this turn" (or, "to cast cards named Spellfire Phoenix this turn.") You could also get around that restriction, I believe, by making it your commander, since the commander has unique properties (such as commander tax) that are tracked.

The "If" ability should be a CDA; easiest to express as "Spellfire Phoenix enters the battlefield with a prowess counter if you cast it from your hand." Prowess is interesting, because, while I feel it's very understandable to players, I believe WotC stopped using it as an evergreen ability due to some complexity and play issues.
.
Speaking of prowess... how about prowess as a static ability?

Janeff Bladedancer -- 1WR
Creature - Human Wizard Soldier
Swordcraft (Janeff Bladedancer gets +1/+1 for each spell you have cast this turn.)
As long as you have cast two or more spells this turn, Janeff Bladedancer has first strike.
2/2

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Post by Morpic_Tide » 3 years ago

OneAndOnly wrote:
3 years ago
First, it's "Phoenix." E after O, or else you'll have woe -- remember?
Typo fixed
The card's very busy, with several different keywords working on it in different directions. It's telling, for example, that your own commentary doesn't mention it having unearth. I'm not certain what the X in the unearth cost is for. I would drop it, and make it a non-phoenix creature (maybe an elemental or a weird).
Huh, seems I actually peeled out all mention of Unearth when clearing the multiple paragraphs about the Izzit Prowess options, since I somehow forgot to mention that in the paragraph with the comparison to Snapcaster Mage. The X is to interact with the mana input clause of the recursion effect, as it allows for recurring spells above CMC 3 by allowing you to pay more than three mana. The other two cards do the same thing, and a similar effect is seen on some Commanders.
Similarly, "this turn" isn't needed for the triggered ability, because every time it's cast, it's an entirely new object with no memory of what's happened before. You could get around this by making it "the total of U or R spent to cast Phoenix creatures this turn" (or, "to cast cards named Spellfire Phoenix this turn.") You could also get around that restriction, I believe, by making it your commander, since the commander has unique properties (such as commander tax) that are tracked.
It is, because it's referencing the targeted spell in your graveyard and leaving that open cuts out quite a bit of the limitation. The "this turn" is after "from your graveyard", not the mana spending clause. I'll switch it to "until end of turn" to clear up that bit of apparent ambiguity.
The "If" ability should be a CDA; easiest to express as "Spellfire Phoenix enters the battlefield with a prowess counter if you cast it from your hand." Prowess is interesting, because, while I feel it's very understandable to players, I believe WotC stopped using it as an evergreen ability due to some complexity and play issues.
These things happen when you dig up posts from over six months ago and don't do a new templating pass because you thought you did it right the first time because it's the fourth iteration of the card you're posting... Copy-pasted the Myojin line for that. As for the complexity, we're talking about a cycle concept based specifically on scaling cost limits with the amount of on-color mana you spend that use an X in a recursion cost for the sole purpose of increasing the amount of on-color mana you can spend alongside a from-hand bonus, the basic premise isn't ever escaping high complexity.
Speaking of prowess... how about prowess as a static ability?

Janeff Bladedancer -- 1WR
Creature - Human Wizard Soldier
Swordcraft (Janeff Bladedancer gets +1/+1 for each spell you have cast this turn.)
As long as you have cast two or more spells this turn, Janeff Bladedancer has first strike.
2/2
I feel like making another keyword solely for the sake of slightly lower rules complexity isn't enough (also you forgot the "noncreature" clause), and I really don't like "As keyword but". I think something like "Swordcraft 1/2 — First Strike (~ gets +1/+1 for each noncreature spell you've cast this turn, and the following ability if you've cast two or more spells this turn)" seems to cover the bases for having both a scaling value to avoid the repeated keyword mess, and having other abilities "locked" behind a given total.

Such could also scale, so one might have a "Swordcraft 2/2|4 — Lifelink|Flying (This creature gets +2/+2 for each noncreature spell you've cast this turn, and the following abilities if you've cast the respective number of spells or more)". This saves the repetitive bumper text, allowing for what would otherwise be absurdly massive text boxes. And with the creation of Boast, we actually have rules precedent for keywording conditions on typed-out abilities, even if we don't have the comprehensive rules in hand to know exactly what slides into that functionality without issue.

Just having a number to the keyword so that there's the room for very high cost bombs that get +2/+2 or +3/+3 per spell to have it actually matter in that topdeck mode and be fodder for truly insane ritual blowouts would be a big help, to my burning need for design space.

Now, for a completely different bit, have a riff on some truly ancient card design:

Wormfang Watcher 1uu
Creature - Nightmare Bird
Flying, Flash
When Wormfang Watcher enters the battlefield, exile two permanents you control.
When Wormfang Watcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled permanents to their owner's hand.
3/5

The Wormfang Nightmares of Judgement are an example of seemingly almost pinning down something as part of the color pie, in this case temporary Exile as a cost being in Blue. The block as a whole had a lot of Nightmares as temporary-effects, but the Blue ones outside of Wormfang Manta all do the specific thing of exiling another card as a cost, which is not done by any of the other Nightmares in the block outside Worldgorger Dragon. All the others either ask for a different cost refunded on leaving the battlefield, or don't require it to be something of yours exiled.

So this is calling back to that, but ultimately places the cards back into your hand rather than directly back into play, making it a sort of "delayed bounce" to be less troublesome in-color. For this card in particular, you get two Toughness over vanilla on a Flash card in exchange for needing to get rid of it later to get back two of your permanents, and then you have to actually play those permanents. Really heavy defensive option, but using it like a flicker to avoid a targeted effect means you need some way to get rid of this separately.

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Post by OneAndOnly » 3 years ago

Well, I like it. It does start to verge on black's old turf of "low cmc creature with high stats and drawbacks" as well as white's "rescue" mechanic.

I always wonder about keeping names and flavor text consistent with old sets. Like, obviously this card wouldn't be printed in Judgment, and, just as obviously, you wouldn't want to introduce the same factions into a newer setting. Nostalgia sets like Time Spiral and Dominaria allow for crossovers between older and newer sets but are a rarity, and we shouldn't drink too deeply from that well, or too often. But re-skinning it as part of a new faction seems to also miss the point.

Of course, that's part of the glory of the boards; we're not *really* designing sets.

.

I've been on this sort of kick lately:

Enervate -- B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant damaged creature
Damage isn't removed from enchanted creature at the ends of turns.
.
In previous iterations this sort of mechanic gets knocked for memory issues. It's different than -1/-1 counters, though, and I think the memory issues are rather slight, since it's pretty clear which creature you need to track damage between turns. It leads to an interesting keyword mechanic for a set: Scarred (Damage isn't removed from this creature at the ends of turns), which (sigh) usually also gets knocked as being a drawback-only mechanic.

Thoughts?

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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

If I have a mechanic/ability I'm working on, should I get help here or on another thread, or start my own...? I know this is meant for cards...
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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

CamraMaan wrote:
3 years ago
If I have a mechanic/ability I'm working on, should I get help here or on another thread, or start my own...? I know this is meant for cards...
I would have to highly suggest you start a new thread.
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Post by CamraMaan » 3 years ago

Appreciated! Continue on... :)
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Post by folding_music » 3 years ago

heyoo

I'm proud of this cutie. I guess I have a meta--question, though: can this really be common? The set I'm working on is fairly insular and not meant to resemble a standard set particularly closely, but I still wonder. I remember the Lorwyn "Reveal an X card or pay 2/3" cycle being uncommon.

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Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

I do like the flavor of an animated but not particularly strong idol being an Imp.

The 4 for a vanilla 3/4 "mode" is clearly fine at common. I'm not sure that 2 and a land sac for that is something that we want running around at that rarity for Limited. Either way it's totally unproblematic for Constructed.
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Post by Scarman » 3 years ago

folding_music wrote:
3 years ago
heyoo

I'm proud of this cutie. I guess I have a meta--question, though: can this really be common? The set I'm working on is fairly insular and not meant to resemble a standard set particularly closely, but I still wonder. I remember the Lorwyn "Reveal an X card or pay 2/3" cycle being uncommon.
I wasn't playing limited back in the days of Zendikar, but I see Conceited Idol filling a similar role to that of Scythe Tiger in a comparable environment. I guess its power depends on the average size of creatures in the set it's in.


Radiant Zealot (U)
Creature - Human Cleric
Vigilance
, : Radiant Zealot deals 2 damage to
target creature. Activate this ability only
if you gained life this turn.
2/2

Designed to fit into a midrange-y deck, particularly in non-rotating formats. I don't know how it could influence the current Standard or Limited format, though.

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Post by Morpic_Tide » 3 years ago

So, this card's a bit of trouble for how you can set it off with a lot of cheap spells incidentally, such that in any format with a functional mono-white Lifegain deck you can likely justify splashing Red for the additional reach of this card. Desperate Lunge is a perfect example, because it's a solid boost for the cost to begin with as it's +2 damage and evasion to make it hit face, the life gain makes it a good inclusion to deal with other similar decks, and this makes it an attractive proposition for activating the tap ability to take out another enemy creature Radiant Zealot isn't even in combat with.

Repeatable damage above pings has typically had exorbitant costs to it even with heavy restrictions, because it's extremely likely to break a range of other deck strategies as there are a lot of things that get taken down by two more damage. This card exists in a uniquely horrible niche for that because it creates a mirror match that's absolute torture because a key card counters itself and the win condition is countered by the enabler for that key card, which then presses for Battlefield Promotion and such to bundle avoiding your Zealot being countered by the enemy Zealot with activating your Zealot or countering one of their bodies.

You have a Vigilance creature that deals extra damage to creatures in Boros colors, why wouldn't you be using an ambush deck? It just runs over traditional board-flood aggro entirely because you're burning the other guy's gas and getting outside their burst range. If this card goes in any deck in the meta it inherently outmodes other aggro decks because it counters all the others, and several strains of combo deck, and some forms of duck-and-cover. We're talking turning Gain Lands into valued sideboard cards for turning an aggro deck into a control counter.

Basically, either it's useless in a format or it breaks it, with little in between, because what it's doing begs for a deck that the basic meta patterns are ill equipped to handle.

As for my card, it is once more a repost from The Commander Game:
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Grenshaw, Savage Despot Xguur
Legendary Creature - Sphinx
Flying, Flash
When you cast Grenshaw, gain control of up to X target creatures with total mana value less than the mana spent to cast Grenshaw. If this would make one of their owners control no creatures, put X +1/+1 counters and a Haste counter on Grenshaw.
Sacrifice a creature: Counter target spell unless its controller pays , where X is the sacrificed creature's Toughness. This ability may be activated while Grenshaw is on the stack.
2/2.
Grenshaw, Savage Despot XXgur
Legendary Creature - Sphinx
Flying, Flash, Haste, Devour 2
When you cast Grenshaw, gain control of up to X target creatures with total mana value less than the mana spent to cast Grenshaw. If this would make one of their owners control no creatures, Grenshaw enters the battlefield with a Haste counter.
Sacrifice a creature: Counter target spell unless its controller pays , where X is the sacrificed creature's Toughness. This ability may be activated while Grenshaw is on the stack.
2/2.
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The effect here is a bit horribly wordy, but I saw an opportunity to fix the issues with using Vexing Beetle in Commander by merging it with the gains-control effect, which is not turn specific for getting only the same mana cost you put in and limiting by the X component, so commander tax reduces how many separate creatures you can take and you need to cast for 5 to get just one creature stolen, and the P/T value needs to have an enemy's board clear to be decent for the mana total.

It'd work a lot better in Grixis or Naya colors for having a cleaner interaction, but that'd make keeping the enemy boards clear far too straightforward to get the value back out, and the use of Blue's control-stealing gives an extremely powerful effect to be able to immediately steal the game if you can generate the needed mana. By using Temur colors, you need to look at it as several separate strategies that each fuel this card in a different way, using this card to solidify your deck with an escape to enemies going after your engine and a centralizing piece to cover.

This is most likely horribly overtuned even with deliberately sub-optimal colors for the sac outlet or token flood directions, owing to being able to steal large masses of other player's weenies and run permissions on literally every curve-topper without much difficulty, but I still feel this should be active at a quite early point for being a strategy-enabling Commander. Could go three cost base and two X, as a lot of value comes from efficiently converting creatures into countering curve-stretching plays, then the size can be adapted into Devour, but that's going really far from the "seed" for the effects.
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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

Very cool card overall.
Morpic_Tide wrote:
3 years ago
put X +1/+1 counters and a Haste counter on Grenshaw.
Probabaly should say, "Grenshaw enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters and a haste counter on it."
Morpic_Tide wrote:
3 years ago
Could go three cost base and two X
Probably a good idea. It's safer but still quite strong and would be aesthetically satisfying vs the double blue.
Morpic_Tide wrote:
3 years ago
Grenshaw, Savage Despot
Legendary Creature - Sphinx
The name is not evocative of a Sphinx imo. It sounds like a Knoll Pirate to me.

MY CARD:

Waste World (Rare)
Land
T: Add C.
T, Discard a card: Add one mana of any color.
Waste worlds were the dumping grounds of the pleasure worlds; an offensive eyesore in a sanitary universe. They had to go.

For a custom set that has a mechanical variant of threshold, present in all colors. Ideally, it serves as an enabler for the set's GW reanimator archetype.

FTR, the mechanic counts colors of cards in your graveyard:
Spectra — *something special* for each color among cards in your graveyard.

Anyways, the effect seems abusable with Reanimate, but is it too good or just real good?
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Post by BOVINE » 2 years ago

I'd say too good. Maybe , Discard a card, to activate.

Also, "An offensive eyesore in a sanitary universe." is enough to draw me in to the other cards in the set. I'd at least consider shortening it to that. Edit: the card art could say a lot about the first part of the flavor text
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Post by Morpic_Tide » 2 years ago

Legend wrote:
2 years ago
Probabaly should say, "Grenshaw enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters and a haste counter on it."
It's nested in another effect as an "If", rather than an always active property, though looking back over it the current wording does result in putting the counters on while it's on the stack. And the untap is honestly just rubbing it in when the purpose is supposed to be gathering fuel for cover. As mentioned previously, Devour would make it cleaner value, but it also requires the on-cast, and thus uncounterable, control-stealing effect.

Looking it up, Dominate puts a three-mana surcharge on the single-target control property, so double X really does seem appropriate with the "Commander variable" version translating this to full input-to-value-stolen. And a 2/2 Flash Flyer exists for 2u in the form of Vexing Gull, which sees enough equivalence to say there's "room" for judging it as two color identity.

From the minimum to get control of another creature in the alternate, 2gur, we have Riku of Two Reflections and Illuna, Apex of Wishes, which both generate more of your stuff in fairly rapid quantities over stealing a single creature of up to mana value 5, and provide us a benchmark of much, much more value generated over time, as opposed to asking for resources to negate value of others. In this case, the scalability of stealing enemy creatures

Conversely, at the base cost of gur, we have Animar, Soul of Elements and Averna, the Chaos Bloom, who both again generate staggering potential for ongoing value, but don't have much explosive capacity, instead being thorough value-over-time "startup" Commanders. Against them, this would be the premier aggro piece of the color combination, being able to quickly put someone under tight pressure to find answers that cost enough to avoid being countered, or enough answers to run your board down.
The name is not evocative of a Sphinx imo. It sounds like a Knoll Pirate to me.
Eh, not much good with names to begin with, and the flavor concept was "dominated" by Conquering Manticore being rendered permanent to keep fuel for a proxy version of Judge's Familiar, therefor pivoting to Blue primary because it's doing two mostly Blue things. Maybe a name based on early Mesopotamian figures, where writing was still working on handling stories. Possibly looting the Epic of Gilgamesh for names.

Not going to do it now because rooting around mythology gets surprisingly time-consuming, but worth noting if one feels like "fixing" the mistake.

...That brings to mind working out an "advent of the color pie" sort of set focused on top-down design of back-tracking the color pie's thematic elements to work out what it'd look like at the advent of civilization where metalworking and record-keeping are still rather new and the natural world is still in unexploited equilibrium, leading to Artifacts "feeling" like a struggling new thing and Green being more focused on recursion than ramp.

Changes have been edited into the previous post, as I myself don't have any comments on Waste World.

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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

BOVINE wrote:
2 years ago
I'd say too good. Maybe , Discard a card, to activate.
That was my thought, too. But then it's Unknown Shores with a "drawback". Is that okay? I really don't know. It seems rather unattractive, but may be the right way to go nonetheless. This is a tough one for me because it's "safe" in the context of my set, but then I want the cards in it to be mechanically realistic/printable.
BOVINE wrote:
2 years ago
Also, "An offensive eyesore in a sanitary universe." is enough to draw me in to the other cards in the set. I'd at least consider shortening it to that. Edit: the card art could say a lot about the first part of the flavor text
The card names, art, and flavor text are all drawn from actual science fiction media. This is the art for the card, straight off of the novel's cover (artist Jeffrey Jones).
image.png
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Post by void_nothing » 2 years ago

Easy fix: Exile the card from hand instead of discarding.
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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
2 years ago
Easy fix: Exile the card from hand instead of discarding.
The main purpose is to get it into the graveyard though.
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Post by BOVINE » 2 years ago

Okay that art is so cool :)

Idea – What if Waste World just didn't add mana? Like an old school land such as Arena. You could keep the Tap, Discard a card: Add one mana of any color. Hell, maybe add one of any type.
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Post by OneAndOnly » 1 year ago

Demerik Brigade - 2w
Instant
Team kicker 1W (As you cast this spell, name any number of teammates and pay 1W for each player named this way.).
Create a 2/2 white Knight creature token with first strike and inviolate. Each other player you named does the same.

Inviolate = "This creature can't be sacrificed."

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Post by S6nculve » 10 months ago

I designed this Emrakul to be thematic and in line with the lore — corrupting everything around her and causing havoc to the minds of others. I also followed the design pattern of the previous two Emrakuls.

Image

Emrakul {11}
Legendary Creature - Eldrazi (M)
Delirium - Whenever you cast Emrakul or an Eldrazi creature spell with converted mana cost 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random, draw that many cards, and other creatures you control get +3/-3 until end of turn.
Each creature card in your hand without mutate has mutate. Its mutate cost is equal to its mana cost.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, put three +1/+1 counters on that creature, it gains devoid, and it becomes an eldrazi in addition to its other types.
Flash, flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from Instances
11/11

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Post by void_nothing » 10 months ago

Welcome to the forums! It's been a while since this thread was active, but we may as well get it restarted like this.

So your Emrakul does capture the essence of the character, but I would say that you tried to do so in too many ways, resulting in an overly wordy card that lacks cohesion. You'd have a more elegant, tighter, more comprehensible, and overall better design if you stripped this one down a little bit. So let's get to the essence by removing things that maybe aren't making the card better. My personal opinion would be that a delirium ability is fitting with Emrakul and allowing the cast trigger to go on other creatures is a cool twist, but that the mass +3/-3 could easily be a drawback. Unless you really think the possibility of killing your own creatures is something you want, this in some ways disincentivizes hardcasting, which likely goes against what you want to do.

Mutate, also, is rather random here - yes, Emrakul literally did mutate some denizens of Innistrad, but mutate is associated with Ikoria - not that mechanics can't show up in multiple settings, but there's no flavor connection currently - and also has anti-synergy with the ability right afterward. That latter ability - turning creatures into Eldrazi while pumping them up - is also a part of the essence of Emrakul but feels oddly repetitious with the mass +3/-3 from that triggered ability. Finally, instant speed and discard usually don't go together for reasons mostly related to the flow of gameplay and trying to reduce griefer-ish effects, even on eleven-mana mythics. A more cohesive package that incorporates an additional Emrakul-like effect I'd suggest would look like this:

Delirium - Whenever you cast Emrakul or another creature spell with mana value 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random. Put any number of creature cards discarded this way onto the battlefield under your control.
Flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from instants
Each other creature you control gets +3/+3, is colorless, and is an Eldrazi in addition to its other types.

I might also swap the delirium ability to be the pump static ability...
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S6nculve
Posts: 9
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Post by S6nculve » 10 months ago

void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
Welcome to the forums! It's been a while since this thread was active, but we may as well get it restarted like this.
Thanks, happy to be here. Yeah, true. But the topic title seemed like a perfect fit for what I am looking for. Thank you for the reply!!
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
So your Emrakul does capture the essence of the character, but I would say that you tried to do so in too many ways, resulting in an overly wordy card that lacks cohesion. You'd have a more elegant, tighter, more comprehensible, and overall better design if you stripped this one down a little bit. So let's get to the essence by removing things that maybe aren't making the card better.
Yeah, I agree. 100%. She is being pulled in too many directions. Thank you, I'll rework her.
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
My personal opinion would be that a delirium ability is fitting with Emrakul and allowing the cast trigger to go on other creatures is a cool twist, but that the mass +3/-3 could easily be a drawback. Unless you really think the possibility of killing your own creatures is something you want, this in some ways disincentivizes hardcasting, which likely goes against what you want to do.
Yeah, delirium all the way. I agree. I wanted her to have the opportunity to interact more with other Eldrazi while still feeling like Emrakul ☺️ Yeah, the +3/-3 is perfect for Emrakul, but my implementation of the mechanic is clunky. I agree 😔
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
Mutate, also, is rather random here - yes, Emrakul literally did mutate some denizens of Innistrad, but mutate is associated with Ikoria - not that mechanics can't show up in multiple settings, but there's no flavor connection currently - and also has anti-synergy with the ability right afterward.
So I disagree about your flavor comment, but I see your point. It is a solid point. Mutate isn't quite right, and also a little clunky because of the nonhuman thing. And you are correct that doesn't fit well with her last ability. Agreed.
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
That latter ability - turning creatures into Eldrazi while pumping them up - is also a part of the essence of Emrakul but feels oddly repetitious with the mass +3/-3 from that triggered ability.
Agreed.
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
Finally, instant speed and discard usually don't go together for reasons mostly related to the flow of gameplay and trying to reduce griefer-ish effects, even on eleven-mana mythics.
So I have to disagree on this. At around a mana cost of 7+, it is appropriate to start breaking fundamental rules of MTG. At a mana cost of 11, instant speed discard is fine IMO.
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
A more cohesive package that incorporates an additional Emrakul-like effect I'd suggest would look like this:

Delirium - Whenever you cast Emrakul or another creature spell with mana value 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random. Put any number of creature cards discarded this way onto the battlefield under your control.
Flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from instants
Each other creature you control gets +3/+3, is colorless, and is an Eldrazi in addition to its other types.
So this is fairly close to what I wanted from Emrakul. Nice. It is actually scarier than my initial Emrakul 😱

Image
void_nothing wrote:
10 months ago
I might also swap the delirium ability to be the pump static ability...
Personally I think delirium is perfect, but I see what you mean.

———————————————————————————————————————————

So taking everything you said into account, well almost everything 😆 — This is what I have come up with:
Image

Delirium - Whenever you cast Emrakul or an Eldrazi spell with converted mana cost 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random, draw that many cards, and any number of target creatures get +3/-3 until end of turn.
Each eldrazi creature card in your hand without transmogrify has transmogrify. Its transmogrify cost is equal to its mana cost (If you cast this spell for its transmogrify cost, put it over target non-Eldrazi creature. They transmogrify into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it. You control the transmogrified creature.)
Flash, flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from Instances

So as you can see I did simplify it and condensed it down to two main abilities. The first is mostly unchanged, but I suspect the "any number of target creatures get +3/-3 until end of turn" portion may be too powerful. Or it may be fine 😆 the first Emrakul I shared was approved by my play group to try, but I wanted to get more input. So thank you for everything you've shared so far 😊 So I think that I will end up play testing your version and my new — after any more alterations I may make from more input! 😊

With the second main ability, I did create a new ability by modifying Mutate which may be problematic do to unforseen interactions... but I think stealing enemy creatures as they burst out of their skin transforming into Eldrazi is thematic and fun 😋

S6nculve
Posts: 9
Joined: 10 months ago
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Post by S6nculve » 9 months ago

So, unsolicited & probably even an unwanted update ( 🙄😬🤭🤗 ): after getting feedback from my local play groups and playtesting on TTS with friends & some nice randoms. This is the current version (currently rated at a power level 8 by my play group):

Image

Emrakul, the Void's Embrace 9CC
Legendary Creature — Eldrazi
Eminence — As long as Emrakul is in the command zone or on the battlefield, each eldrazi creature card in your hand without transmogrify has transmogrify. Its transmogrify cost is equal to its mana value.
Transmogrify 9CC (If you cast this spell for its transmogrify cost, put it over target non-Eldrazi creature with lesser mana value. They transmogrify into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it. You control the transmogrified creature.)
Flash, flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from Instances
Delirium — Whenever you cast Emrakul or an Eldrazi spell with mana value 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random, draw that many cards, and any number of target creatures get +3/-3 until end of turn.
11/11

Any additional feedback, questions, comments, concerns, and/or advice is welcome and a great help 👍

S6nculve
Posts: 9
Joined: 10 months ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by S6nculve » 9 months ago

So, again after getting even more feedback. We determined that modeling Transmogrify on Mutate and being able to target enemy creatures creates too much confusion about things like control & ownership. So instead we reworked it to instead be based on Imprint. This is the current version:

Image

Emrakul, the Void's Embrace 9CC
Legendary Creature — Eldrazi
Eminence — As long as Emrakul is in the command zone or on the battlefield, each eldrazi creature card in your hand without transmogrify has transmogrify. Its transmogrify cost is equal to its mana value.
Transmogrify 9CC (If you cast this spell for its transmogrify cost, exile target non-Eldrazi creature with lesser mana value. As long as a card exiled with this creature is a creature card, this creature has all abilities of all cards exiled with it.)
Flash, flying, trample, vigilance, hexproof from Instances
Delirium — Whenever you cast Emrakul or an Eldrazi spell with mana value 7 or greater, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, each opponent discards two cards at random, draw that many cards, and any number of target creatures get +3/-3 until end of turn.
11/11

Again, any additional feedback, questions, comments, concerns, and/or advice is welcome and a great help 👍

IvyStar
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Pronoun: she / her

Post by IvyStar » 7 months ago

Here is this I think not really sure if that worked, anyways I wanted to make the card represent all colors while offering variety and interesting mechanics that could work well for anyone adding something new to the game for everyone, I tried to not make it broken but any ability could be used to make a strong gameplan
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