[ALT] Giant Spider Invasion
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Alternity is a custom set inspired by old pulp science fiction story poster and book cover art, titles, and language. (That being said, if you know of any pulp styled spider or tarantula art, please share it.) One of the self-imposed design restrictions for Alternity is to use only creature tokens that already exist in Magic ("restrictions breed creativity"). Alternity has ample ways, such as Moon Landing, to generate mana (sources) with which to fuel spells like Giant Spider Invasion.
Moon Landing (Common)
Sorcery
Create a tapped land token of any basic type and a 1/1 red Soldier creature token with haste.
Giant Spider Invasion (Uncommon)
Instant
Create X 2/4 black Spider creature tokens with reach.
Moon Landing (Common)
Sorcery
Create a tapped land token of any basic type and a 1/1 red Soldier creature token with haste.
Giant Spider Invasion (Uncommon)
Instant
Create X 2/4 black Spider creature tokens with reach.
Last edited by Legend 4 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
I admit that it does come across as a little odd at first, but it's hardly indefinite. Is there reminder text for the effect that couldn't and/or shouldn't just be rules text? How would you improve the rules text or word reminder text for the effect? For reference, I adopted and adapted Planewide Celebration's first mode as precedent, which states "Create a 2/2 Citizen creature token that's all colors."
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
I assumed it doesn't work like a regular land. If it does, then yes, your wording is fine.
However, the whole effect is a colorshifted Rampant Growth (too strong already by modern standards) on steroids.
Not only you get a land of any type regardless of what you included in your deck, but you also get a creature.
However, the whole effect is a colorshifted Rampant Growth (too strong already by modern standards) on steroids.
Not only you get a land of any type regardless of what you included in your deck, but you also get a creature.
I assume it does based on...
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words "basic land type," it's referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability "T: Add *mana symbol*," even if the text box doesn't actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, *mana symbol* is W; for Islands, U; for Swamps, B; for Mountains, R; and for Forests, G. See rule 107.4a. See also rule 605, "Mana Abilities."
Is Moon Landing not more like a color shifted Explore than Rampant Growth? (For the record, the mechanic is in development.)Ryder wrote: ↑4 years agoHowever, the whole effect is a colorshifted Rampant Growth (too strong already by modern standards) on steroids.
Not only you get a land of any type regardless of what you included in your deck, but you also get a creature.
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
Explore puts a land you already have in your hand onto the battlefield. It does nothing if you don't have lands in your hand. Rampant Growth and Moon Landing get you a land unconditionally.Legend wrote: ↑4 years agoIs Moon Landing not more like a color shifted Explore than Rampant Growth? (For the record, the mechanic is in development.)
Explore doesn't do "nothing", it cantrips, and Rampant Growth shuffles and thins your deck. I should mention that, in the set file and the OP text, the effect has been changed to create a tapped land. I just haven't updated the OP image yet. I appreciate and don't entirely disagree with your assessment, by the way.Ryder wrote: ↑4 years agoExplore puts a land you already have in your hand onto the battlefield. It does nothing if you don't have lands in your hand. Rampant Growth and Moon Landing get you a land unconditionally.Legend wrote: ↑4 years agoIs Moon Landing not more like a color shifted Explore than Rampant Growth? (For the record, the mechanic is in development.)
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
- SecretInfiltrator
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Replacing itself if you miss. While Moon Landing cannot miss. And in lieu of the cantrip it creates a 1/1 token.
I just had a discussion about how toxic cards like Index and Brainstorm are because they make shuffling "valuable" and "desirable" to players while they actively are undesirable from a designer's perspective concerned with game flow. In a sane environment shuffling is not a benefit, but even when it is deck thinning is minor and both benefits are really well balanced by the fact that for this card to fix mana (in addition to ramping) you don't even need anything but basic Mountains in your deck.
The reason this card is comparable to Rampant Growth are the main metrics: Mana investment: 1C, hand card investment: one card, land count +1 (tapped, now that you change that). With all the minor metrics (deck thinning, shuffling, deck construction considerations, ...) assumed approximately balanced this grants still a whole 1/1 token with haste over Rampant Growth.
That's a lot, I'd argue. Haste makes this card more potent long-term ramp in red than green gets with Farhaven Elf. This shoudn't cost even with both tokens tapped IMO (not that that would fit red any better).
For a good comparison let's look at the weaker (one-time use) Treasure tokens and a 1/1 body without haste in red: Wily Goblin. A more intensive mana cost. Assuming coming untapped is balanced with single-use (and I'd argue the reverse is true) that creature has a "greater" cost without haste. Part of the reason here is that the ramp (one-shot or otherwise) is especially potent at low cmc.
Also am I the only one that things the moon should produces ?
Also I suggest using the term basic land type. It's more consistent and once we're talking about custom cards you will want to make certain you don't create problems with other custom cards.
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Red is consistently one of the worst colors at permanent mana acceleration. Making a land token is interesting, but this... is not really how you want to introduce that to the world. This card is green, full stop. If all you did was add, say, C to the cost, this is still a green card. The reasons to increase the cost have already been explained.
Again, it's an interesting idea and I think a land token does fit in with the concept of infinite possibility and a "new frontier" that space travel provides. It's just not very much of a red card.
The spider one is fine.
Anyway, what's the cutoff point for sets to take creature types from for this? Just out of curiosity.
Again, it's an interesting idea and I think a land token does fit in with the concept of infinite possibility and a "new frontier" that space travel provides. It's just not very much of a red card.
The spider one is fine.
Anyway, what's the cutoff point for sets to take creature types from for this? Just out of curiosity.
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maybe if it had a "depletion" counter or something similar that allowed it to tap for one of any color then generic or colorless permanently
Sorry for the late replies. Going through a career change, had a birthday, closed on a (tedious) home mortgage loan, and had a death in the immediately family, all on top of the normal responsibilities of life, and all in the month of January.
Wily Goblin is a precedent not a standard and certainly not the ceiling.SecretInfiltrator wrote: ↑4 years agoFor a good comparison let's look at the weaker (one-time use) Treasure tokens and a 1/1 body without haste in red: Wily Goblin.
You're exactly right. Not sure what I was thinking.SecretInfiltrator wrote: ↑4 years agoHaste makes this card more potent long-term ramp in red than green gets with Farhaven Elf.
You are not. In fact, add was the original version. But this just happens to be a "moon" flavored card while the mechanic as a whole is about discovering "worlds", whether they be moons or planets. If every land is flavorless and identical, it won't feel very much like discovering new worlds. It feels more like wandering though a wasteland. Plus, though the set is still in fairly early stages, it's currently imagined to easily enable 3 color sealed/draft decks and even up to 5 color draft decks.
And yet generic/colorless artifacts do it rather well. This set will trespass taboo territory by giving ramp to every color in the form of token lands. I plan to do so cautiously, and will share the entire suite of such cards in this forum for inspection.M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years agoRed is consistently one of the worst colors at permanent mana acceleration.
Thank you! That's exactly what I was hoping to read!M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years agoAgain, it's an interesting idea and I think a land token does fit in with the concept of infinite possibility and a "new frontier" that space travel provides.
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean, what existing creature types can be used in an outer space themed set?M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years agoAnyway, what's the cutoff point for sets to take creature types from for this? Just out of curiosity.
I'm not sure what you mean. Is my reasoning above not reason enough for the current wording?SecretInfiltrator wrote: ↑4 years agoAlso I suggest using the term basic land type. It's more consistent and once we're talking about custom cards you will want to make certain you don't create problems with other custom cards.
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
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It's more "I think I misread the post a little." But since you're using only existing creature tokens, are any sets off-limits for your use? Are, say, Hornet tokens too old (originally I was going to ask about Wasps from The Hive, but that was reprinted in 10E and I forgot until that moment), or tentacle tokens too new? Are supplemental expansions off-limits, preventing the use of the very odd black snake tokens?Legend wrote: ↑4 years agoI'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean, what existing creature types can be used in an outer space themed set?M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years agoAnyway, what's the cutoff point for sets to take creature types from for this? Just out of curiosity.
Last edited by M00NSIDIAN 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
No. Currently, creature tokens ever printed are potential candidates. The more obscure and funky, the better. It's just a matter of making them feel right for the set. Sorry for the late reply. I took some weeks off from designing the set to find about 300 images of retro science fiction literature cover art (that will fit in the art box without lettering and without looking grainy), which was no small task. The next thing to do is narrow the list of potential creature tokens. Any suggestions?M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years ago...since you're using only existing creature tokens, are any sets off-limits for your use?
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan
"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery
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Krishnath Mechanical Dragon
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Tokens? Unusual you say? Well, there are a few you could use. Like:Legend wrote: ↑4 years agoNo. Currently, creature tokens ever printed are potential candidates. The more obscure and funky, the better. It's just a matter of making them feel right for the set. Sorry for the late reply. I took some weeks off from designing the set to find about 300 images of retro science fiction literature cover art (that will fit in the art box without lettering and without looking grainy), which was no small task. The next thing to do is narrow the list of potential creature tokens. Any suggestions?M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years ago...since you're using only existing creature tokens, are any sets off-limits for your use?
Assembly Worker
Two different Wurm tokens from a single card.
A shapeshifter with changeling
Although not rare, the Servo token fits the flavor.
Gremlins
Lizards!
Orb
Starfish
Survivor
A big red Bird
A small Plant
A big white Spirit
And of course, one of my personal favorites, Thrull
There are literally dozens upon dozens of tokens that have only been used one or a few times. It just takes forever to find them all.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.
Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.
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Need a bigger lizard? Subterranean Tremors offers an 8/8 red biggie.
Wurms are a choice with potential, and there are a ton out there (6/6 and 5/5 greens from many sources, 6/6 black from Penumbra Wurm).
Smaller serpentines? You got snakes (green/blue, black with deathtouch, green with and without deathtouch, black-and-green with deathtouch, not to mention this big boi).
Dune-Brood Nephilim makes 1/1 colorless Sand tokens, which would be potentially interesting for a very aggressive sandstorm. Doesn't Mars have some pretty big dust storms? I'm sure it'd be on-theme.
On the less-obscure but maybe more-flavorful side: there's a metric crapload of golems (3/3, 4/4 and even 9/9) and constructs (including the ever-fun 6/12) for all your needs there.
Then there's a wide variety of insects (of which I'm partial to the "locust" types) for smaller creatures especially in black and green.
It certainly won't be conclusive, but a good way to grab some quick inspiration is to go on Scryfall and just start looking in the "[set name here] tokens" section for each set. A problem is, in a way, that newer tokens tend to be fairly genericized, so this really won't be the most conclusive detective-work if you're looking for funky stuff.
Wurms are a choice with potential, and there are a ton out there (6/6 and 5/5 greens from many sources, 6/6 black from Penumbra Wurm).
Smaller serpentines? You got snakes (green/blue, black with deathtouch, green with and without deathtouch, black-and-green with deathtouch, not to mention this big boi).
Dune-Brood Nephilim makes 1/1 colorless Sand tokens, which would be potentially interesting for a very aggressive sandstorm. Doesn't Mars have some pretty big dust storms? I'm sure it'd be on-theme.
On the less-obscure but maybe more-flavorful side: there's a metric crapload of golems (3/3, 4/4 and even 9/9) and constructs (including the ever-fun 6/12) for all your needs there.
Then there's a wide variety of insects (of which I'm partial to the "locust" types) for smaller creatures especially in black and green.
It certainly won't be conclusive, but a good way to grab some quick inspiration is to go on Scryfall and just start looking in the "[set name here] tokens" section for each set. A problem is, in a way, that newer tokens tend to be fairly genericized, so this really won't be the most conclusive detective-work if you're looking for funky stuff.
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Krishnath Mechanical Dragon
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Also works on gatherer, just select a set in the drop down menu, write "token" in the search field, and click in "text" instead of "name".M00NSIDIAN wrote: ↑4 years agoIt certainly won't be conclusive, but a good way to grab some quick inspiration is to go on Scryfall and just start looking in the "[set name here] tokens" section for each set. A problem is, in a way, that newer tokens tend to be fairly genericized, so this really won't be the most conclusive detective-work if you're looking for funky stuff.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.
Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.
Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.