New Flipwalkers

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frogchild
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Post by frogchild » 2 months ago

Hi, new user here. This is my first proper post.

I really like the idea of the flipwalkers from Magic Origins and M19, and think it's a very good way to represent sparking. So, I decided to do a few more
Ajani, Nacatl Outcast
2WW
Legendary Creature - Cat Warrior

Vigilance, Lifelink

When Ajani, Nacatl Outcast enters the battlefield, create a 2/2 white Cat Warrior creature token

At the beginning of your postcombat main phase, if a creature you controlled died this turn, exile Ajani, Nacatl Outcast and return it to the battlefield transformed
3/4
//
Ajani, Hero Of Alara
?
Legendary Planeswalker - Ajani

+2: Gain 5 life

-3: create a 2/2 Cat Warrior creature token named Ajani's Pridemate with "Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on this"

-11: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control are indestructible and have lifelink". Then, if you have 40 or more life, create an emblem with "Whenever you gain life, put a loyalty counter on each planeswalker you control"

4
More shall be coming soon.
Last edited by frogchild 1 month ago, edited 2 times in total.

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SecretInfiltrator
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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 2 months ago

The creature side seems like it should have some way to aid you in gaining that life, so lifelink instead of vigilance seems like a better choice.

I'm a little underwhelmed by the planeswalker side. Getting a Pridemate as a reward for having a lot of life already seems like so much wasted life gain, so how about switching the middle and ultimate ability a bit around?

"-3: Create a Ajani's Pridemate token.
-N: Create an emblem with 'Creatures youcontrol have indestructible and lifelink.' and 'Whenever you gain life, put a loyalty counter on each planeswalker you control.'"

? I was surprised to see the starting loyalty was so low, you didn't even get to activate the middle ability immediately.

Lorewise Ajani turned vengeant first upon ascending and his ascension was triggered by the death of his brother, so a creature dying trigger similar to Liliana seems more in-theme.

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frogchild
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Post by frogchild » 2 months ago

Yeah, that seems like a good idea. I'll make some tweaks in a bit.

I didn't actually realize he couldn't - straight away, so I'll change that, and take the other changes into account

Thanks for the feedback!

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Post by frogchild » 2 months ago

Elspeth, The Opressed
1WW
Legendary Creature - Human Peasant

When Elspeth, The Opressed dies, exile it and then return it to the battlefield transformed
0/1

Elspeth, Lonesome Traveler
?
Legendary Planeswalker - Elspeth

+1: Create a 1/1 white Warrior creature token with vigilance

-3: Exile target creature and then return it to the battlefield under it's owner's control

-9: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +1/+1 and have double strike". Exile target permanent

5
Last edited by frogchild 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.

ForestsCarl
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Post by ForestsCarl » 1 month ago

Elspeth's +1 is real strong, on a 2cmc "walker". consider ELpseth 4cmc and Sorin 4CMC have +1s that only generate 1 token.
the flickering seems really weak because of the strong plus and the almost there ultimate. Id rgue with having an emblem on a 2cmc "walker"

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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

Nicol Bolas, Imprisoned
1UBR
Legendary Creature — Elder Dragon
Flying, Defender

When Nicol Bolas, Imprisoned enters the battlefield, draw a card.

Exile a planeswalker you control or a planeswalker card from your hand: Exile Nicol Bolas, Imprisoned, then return him to the battlefield transformed under your control.
2/5
//
Nicol Bolas, Vengeful Villain
Legendary Planeswalker — Bolas
[+2]: You draw a card. Return up to one target planeswalker to its owner's hand. If it is a Ugin planeswalker, exile it instead.
[+1]: Tap target permanent.
[-3]: Exile target creature or planeswalker.
[-9]: Each opponent reveals their hand and discards a card of your choice. Then, exile up to one card from each graveyard. You may play those cards from exile without paying their mana costs.
6


Just my 2 cents... I love the flipwalkers too! :)

EDIT: Removed unnecessary text and lowered toughness by 1 on legend side. Switched +2/+1 on walker side. - v0.5
Last edited by Maestro 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

He purposefully doesn't transform and return "under his owner's control" as a nod to the fact that he'd ally himself with whoever could get him his spark back (if such a thing were possible, which I'm assuming it's not at this point, story-wise - flavor is fun!) His 'walker abilities are based on previous Bolas walkers and his more limited powers post-reignition.

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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 1 month ago

Exile a planeswalker you control or a planeswalker card from your hand: Exile Nicol Bolas, Imprisoned, then return him to the battlefield transformed under your control. Activate this ability at any time.
Do you mean "Any player may activate this ability" instead?
If so, I'd add ", but only during their turn."
Stacking planeswalker-discard-activations could be fun, but also a bit confusing, especially to newer players.
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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

No, the ability doesn't specify that any player can activate it. That wasn't the intent. The intent is just a nod to the fact that if some effect changes control of the Imprisoned from one player to another, that new controller can keep the Villain when they transform the card, which is different from all other flipwalkers and other transform cards (IIRC) since all other transform cards specifically end with the clause "return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control".

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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

Now that I look at it I kindof want to swap the +'s: they both stay the same but the Draw+Bounce/KillUgin would be the +2 and the TapDown would be the +1. That looks better to me, and more flavorful. Bolas would prioritize growing in power, evading other planeswalkers for awhile, and potentially offing his brother over offensive action like tapping down opponents' stuff. It would also encourage the card to be more of a ticking time bomb rather than a tap-down-er. I guess the issue with that would be that nobody would ever use the tap down over the card adv, loyalty adv, and potential slap to the rare person who has a Ugin down... thoughts about this trade-off here?

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Post by Feyd_Ruin » 1 month ago

Ahhh. In that case, the "Activate this ability at any time" text isn't needed. All abilities can already be activated at instant speed unless specifically noted otherwise, and the added text here therefore makes it a little confusing as to its intent (this was the phrase that tripped me up).

I do agree with the change of "your control" instead of "owner's control".

My misunderstanding does create an interesting idea.
A traitorous legend that any player can [ability] to steal and flip him.
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Maestro
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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

Oooh! Drop a post in my megathread about it if you don't wanna derail this... :) I actually had more ideas for flipwalkers I'll post here. Nice thread idea frog!

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Post by frogchild » 1 month ago

I like the Bolas design a lot. It seems pretty balanced and I like the interaction with gain control effects.

As for the Elspeth criticism, I didn't really consider how strong it was for a low cmc walker. I'm going to make the ultimate cost more and Elspeth herself cost a bit more to try and balance it out a bit

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Post by Maestro » 1 month ago

Tomik, Judicator of Peace
2ww
Legendary Creature — Human Advisor
Flying

At the beginning of your upkeep, if a land you control or a Ral planeswalker was exiled or sent to a graveyard since the beginning of your last turn, you may pay . If you do, exile Tomik, and return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control.
2/5
//
Tomik the Heartless
Legendary Planeswalker — Tomik
[+1]: Return up to one target land card from an opponent's graveyard to the battlefield tapped under your control.
[-2]: Destroy target land an opponent controls.
[-3]: Create a 3/4 colorless Gargoyle artifact creature token with Flying.
[-8]: You get an emblem with "Lands you control have indestructible and hexproof."
6


Ral Zarek's partner if he had a spark and it ignited... he's only gotten one card before so I didn't have a ton to work with, but I think it's fun! Give me more ideas of non-walkers I could make into walkers? Or walkers you don't have any idea how to flip-ify. I'll make it work.

EDIT: Added +1 toughness to the Legend side, so he survives Lava Coil to actually transform :P - v0.5
EDIT 2: Tweaked the Gargoyle ability so that it uses an existing token, and swapped it to -3 to balance. In exchange, to help him survive, boosted starting loyalty to 6, meaning you can go for the -3 on starting turn or protect him for 3 turns and get the ult off right away AND have him survive, but he dies to bolt if you do the -3 on the turn he transforms. - v0.6

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frogchild
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Post by frogchild » 1 month ago

I like the idea of non-walkers becoming walkers, but land destruction seems a bit out of place on an Orzhov/monowhite card. I'd go for a build more about locking down lands then straight up destroying them

On another note, in a theoretical origins like core set what planeswalkers would you have as flipwalkers. I think Ajani is a good option for white seeing as he is a major character and very iconic, but I'm not sure for what other ones would be

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Post by SecretInfiltrator » 1 month ago

Tomik is too focused on the lands, especially on the planeswalker side. The ultimate is uninteresting considering the cost. The -2 just doesn't seem to belong except as an awkward enabler for the plus-ability, which is not exactly the kind of impact you want from your expensive flipwalker either.

Protecting lands is just one way to represent Tomrik's abilities concerning contracts and protection. Considering your fitting use of an artifact token, how about you shift the theme from lands to artifacts, which are a more inherently interactive permanent type?
frogchild wrote:
1 month ago
On another note, in a theoretical origins like core set what planeswalkers would you have as flipwalkers. I think Ajani is a good option for white seeing as he is a major character and very iconic, but I'm not sure for what other ones would be
I like the line-up of Core Set 2020. The only planeswalker there that has already a flipwalker is Chandra. But I think it is easy to think of a deserving candidate to replace her in the red slot: Sarkhan has been with us since the second wave and I quite fleshed out story. I could see an argument made to replace Yanling with another classic like Tamiyo or Kiora. Tezzeret would seem like an option, but Ajani already is very Alara-centric in his origin story, while Kiora would tie in the ever-popular Zendikar.

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Post by frogchild » 1 month ago

That's a good point about Core Set 2020. There are definitely lots of good swaps for Chandra, and I think Sarkhan is probably the best choice due to his importance in the storyline. In regards to swapping Yanling out, I'd be hesitant to because out of the lineup she hasn't been fleshed out very much, but Tamiyo or Kiora could both be interesting. I'd lean toward Tamiyo due to the fact that we haven't seen Kamigawa in a long time, and it would be interesting to see modern Kamigawa.

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

His creature side is really underwhelming from a rate perspective -- see Liliana as a 2/3 with lifelink plus she makes a zombie when she dies, all at 3 mana. I'd expect him to be 1W for a vanilla 3/3 with vigilance at legendary, and could stand to be 3/4.

If you just started as Brimaz and then added the 'whenever someone dies he flips' text it'd be closer to on par I think.

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Post by frogchild » 1 month ago

That's a good point. I didn't really consider the other flipwalkers in terms of balancing when I did the design. I want to keep the cost at 4 so he doesn't come down too early, but I'm not sure how to buff him

4/5 vigilance lifelink for 2WW maybe?

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

frogchild wrote:
1 month ago
That's a good point. I didn't really consider the other flipwalkers in terms of balancing when I did the design. I want to keep the cost at 4 so he doesn't come down too early, but I'm not sure how to buff him

4/5 vigilance lifelink for 2WW maybe?

Maybe 3/4 vigilance lifelink create a 2/2 cat warrior when he enters. Self-enabling is a common theme amongst the flipwalkers (E.g. jace, kytheon, nissa) so bringing a token to die might be reasonable.

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Post by frogchild » 1 month ago

Yeah, that makes sense. What are your thoughts on the Elspeth design?

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

frogchild wrote:
1 month ago
Yeah, that makes sense. What are your thoughts on the Elspeth design?
Seems alright to me :) I'm not up on the lore on Elspeth enough to say for sure.

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