Layers are hard, guys. (Colour/type changing)

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Say I have a Darkest Hour and then I resolve Celestial Dawn. Are my creatures w or b? Am I correct in assuming that these are applied in time stamp order? Would I need to resolve Celestial Dawn first to keep my creatures w, then Darkest Hour to turn everything else b? Or is this not actually going to work the way I want it?

What if I have Darkest Hour and a temporary colour changing effect i.e. Eight-and-a-Half-Tails?

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by WizardMN » 2 years ago
You have two effects trying to change the color of your permanents. Hour tries to make them only Black and Dawn tries to make them only White. We can ignore the rest of what Dawn does for this since this is the only spot they overlap. So, yes, we find out how they apply based on timestamps. If Hour is on the field first, all creatures are Black and *then* Dawn makes them White. The end result is that they are just White. If Dawn entered first, they would all turn White and *then* Hour makes the creatures Black leaving us with the end result of being Black.

Note that since Hour only affects creatures, your nonland, noncreature permanents are always White in this case thanks to Dawn.

Something like Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is the same principal. The only difference is what timestamp we are looking for. Since it is an activated ability, the timestamp we care about is when that ability resolves. So, let's say you use 8.5 Tails to make a Creature White. Then Hour enters the field so now Hour has the latest timestamp which means Hour "wins" and the creature is just Black. But then, you realize you really want it to be White so you just activate 8.5 Tails again which would just make it White again. In general, 8.5 Tails is nearly always going to win except for (maybe) the turn Hour enters the field. Otherwise, the resolution of 8.5 Tails ability will always have a later timestamp than Hour.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

You have two effects trying to change the color of your permanents. Hour tries to make them only Black and Dawn tries to make them only White. We can ignore the rest of what Dawn does for this since this is the only spot they overlap. So, yes, we find out how they apply based on timestamps. If Hour is on the field first, all creatures are Black and *then* Dawn makes them White. The end result is that they are just White. If Dawn entered first, they would all turn White and *then* Hour makes the creatures Black leaving us with the end result of being Black.

Note that since Hour only affects creatures, your nonland, noncreature permanents are always White in this case thanks to Dawn.

Something like Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is the same principal. The only difference is what timestamp we are looking for. Since it is an activated ability, the timestamp we care about is when that ability resolves. So, let's say you use 8.5 Tails to make a Creature White. Then Hour enters the field so now Hour has the latest timestamp which means Hour "wins" and the creature is just Black. But then, you realize you really want it to be White so you just activate 8.5 Tails again which would just make it White again. In general, 8.5 Tails is nearly always going to win except for (maybe) the turn Hour enters the field. Otherwise, the resolution of 8.5 Tails ability will always have a later timestamp than Hour.

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

I suspected this was the case, thanks for the clarification.

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