Phasing & As Long As "X" Remains on the Battlefield

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

Kind of a weird question that has potential to occur in a deck of mine, but never has so I want to be prepared just in case and I can't find rulings elsewhere (perhaps my wording on searches hasn't been exactly right).

Sower of Temptation enters the battlefield and causes me to gain control of a creature, let's say a Raging Goblin for example, as long as Sower remains on the battlefield.

I have Teferi's Veil in play and on the following turn, Sower attacks and then phases out.

When Sower phases out it is "treated as though it does not exist", but it is still on the battlefield technically. So it "remains on the battlefield" but it "doesn't exist".

So, when Sower phases out, do I lose control of Raging Goblin?

702.26b If a permanent phases out, its status changes to "phased out." Except for rules and effects that specifically mention phased-out permanents, a phased-out permanent is treated as though it does not exist. It can't affect or be affected by anything else in the game. A permanent that phases out is removed from combat. (See rule 506.4.)
702.26d The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control while it's phased out. ...
Sower of Temptation phases out but does not change zones, so it "remains on the battlefield". It's treated as though it is not on the battlefield though. So I guess this means it does not actually "remain on the battlefield", maybe?
702.26f Continuous effects that affect a phased-out permanent may expire while that permanent is phased out. If so, they will no longer affect that permanent once it's phased in. In particular, effects with "for as long as" durations that track that permanent (see rule 611.2b) end when that permanent phases out because they can no longer see it.
702.26f kind of seems relevant but the continuous effect is affecting the Raging Goblin, not the Sower itself.

I'm leaning towards "I lose control of Raging Goblin" being the correct result, but I'm not 100% sure.


Along similar lines, let's say instead Sower and Raging Goblin attack and phase out simultaneously. Next untap step they phase back in. Do I retain control of Raging Goblin?


I've never run into a game that had phasing and a continuous effect interact in these ways before, but I have a deck with both Sower and Teferi's Veil so the potential is there.

Accepted Answer

by WizardMN » 2 years ago
The game doesn't look for Sower to leave the battlefield so 702.26d doesn't apply. It looks for a moment where you no longer control the Sower. So 702.26f applies: you don't control Sower (as far as the game can tell since it "no longer exists") so you will lose control of the Goblin. Technically you do control it still but the game doesn't know that so the duration is ended.

The same thing applies to the Goblin phasing out with the Sower. You still don't control Sower (again, as far as the game is concerned) so you lose control of the Goblin. When it phases in, it goes right back to the previous controller.

The only scenario you didn't bring up was the Goblin phasing out but Sower remaining phased in. And, in that case, you will still control the Goblin since you still control the Sower and never "lost control" of Sower.

I will also point out that rule 702.26f is somewhat poorly written in its first sentence. The important bit is the third sentence regarding "tracking" that permanent. The CE tracks Sower to ensure you still control it and loses sight of it once it phases out. So, basically, the game throws its hands up and says "I guess you don't control it anymore since I don't see it" and the CE ends.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

The game doesn't look for Sower to leave the battlefield so 702.26d doesn't apply. It looks for a moment where you no longer control the Sower. So 702.26f applies: you don't control Sower (as far as the game can tell since it "no longer exists") so you will lose control of the Goblin. Technically you do control it still but the game doesn't know that so the duration is ended.

The same thing applies to the Goblin phasing out with the Sower. You still don't control Sower (again, as far as the game is concerned) so you lose control of the Goblin. When it phases in, it goes right back to the previous controller.

The only scenario you didn't bring up was the Goblin phasing out but Sower remaining phased in. And, in that case, you will still control the Goblin since you still control the Sower and never "lost control" of Sower.

I will also point out that rule 702.26f is somewhat poorly written in its first sentence. The important bit is the third sentence regarding "tracking" that permanent. The CE tracks Sower to ensure you still control it and loses sight of it once it phases out. So, basically, the game throws its hands up and says "I guess you don't control it anymore since I don't see it" and the CE ends.

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

Great, thanks for the quick response! That's pretty much what I figured the case would be.

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