So, I apologize as there are going to be sort of a lot of questions here all pertaining to the madness ability.
1) Bag of Holding / Shadow of the Grave Just questioning from the standpoint that there is a in between exile part with these cards and madness cards. I am questioning if I don't cast a madness card specifically with these effects.
2) Necropotence - Given that madness cards discard into exile normally..... what would happen to the madness cards if I opt to not cast them if this were in play under my control?
3) opposing Tergrid, God of Fright - I assume I bare minimum that they go to exile and I get the option to cast them. If I don't though, does my opponent get them assuming they are a permeant? I assumed this is likely the same as whatever and wherever we stand on my question #1.
I have always played the Bag of Holding and Shadow of the Grave as though they work with madness but then when an opponent pulled out Tergrid, God of Fright as a commander I started questioning how these work and figured I should verify one way or another.
Madness Questions
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ISBPathfinder
Bebopin - Posts: 2164
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Accepted Answer
1) This one comes down to this rule:
In simpler terms, as long as you resolve the Madness trigger first, the Bag trigger can find it if you don't cast it. Shadow can find it when you cast Shadow if you did not cast the card for Madness.
2) This one applies the same rule but you want to apply the triggers in the opposite order. If you have Necro's trigger resolve first, the card is still sitting in Exile due to Madness and Necro can't find it. Then when Madness resolves, and you don't cast it, it goes to the yard as normal. This is not a "new" discard so Necro won't trigger again.
3) This is indeed the same as #1 though the result ends up depending on whose turn it is. If it is your turn, the Tergrid trigger resolves first and they whiff since it isn't in the graveyard at the time the trigger resolves. If it is their turn, they will get it if you don't cast it. Do note that this only works this way due to Tergrid's wording. Specifically, she *can* track it to exile since that is the first public zone it goes to after being discarded and normally would be able to pull it out from there. However, her ability says she will only pull it from the graveyard so while she can track it, she can't pull it out of exile since her ability only pulls things out of the yard.
Go to full post400.7i. After resolving a madness triggered ability (see rule 702.35), if the exiled card wasn't cast and was moved to a public zone, effects referencing the discarded card can find that object.
In simpler terms, as long as you resolve the Madness trigger first, the Bag trigger can find it if you don't cast it. Shadow can find it when you cast Shadow if you did not cast the card for Madness.
2) This one applies the same rule but you want to apply the triggers in the opposite order. If you have Necro's trigger resolve first, the card is still sitting in Exile due to Madness and Necro can't find it. Then when Madness resolves, and you don't cast it, it goes to the yard as normal. This is not a "new" discard so Necro won't trigger again.
3) This is indeed the same as #1 though the result ends up depending on whose turn it is. If it is your turn, the Tergrid trigger resolves first and they whiff since it isn't in the graveyard at the time the trigger resolves. If it is their turn, they will get it if you don't cast it. Do note that this only works this way due to Tergrid's wording. Specifically, she *can* track it to exile since that is the first public zone it goes to after being discarded and normally would be able to pull it out from there. However, her ability says she will only pull it from the graveyard so while she can track it, she can't pull it out of exile since her ability only pulls things out of the yard.
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1) This one comes down to this rule:
In simpler terms, as long as you resolve the Madness trigger first, the Bag trigger can find it if you don't cast it. Shadow can find it when you cast Shadow if you did not cast the card for Madness.
2) This one applies the same rule but you want to apply the triggers in the opposite order. If you have Necro's trigger resolve first, the card is still sitting in Exile due to Madness and Necro can't find it. Then when Madness resolves, and you don't cast it, it goes to the yard as normal. This is not a "new" discard so Necro won't trigger again.
3) This is indeed the same as #1 though the result ends up depending on whose turn it is. If it is your turn, the Tergrid trigger resolves first and they whiff since it isn't in the graveyard at the time the trigger resolves. If it is their turn, they will get it if you don't cast it. Do note that this only works this way due to Tergrid's wording. Specifically, she *can* track it to exile since that is the first public zone it goes to after being discarded and normally would be able to pull it out from there. However, her ability says she will only pull it from the graveyard so while she can track it, she can't pull it out of exile since her ability only pulls things out of the yard.
400.7i. After resolving a madness triggered ability (see rule 702.35), if the exiled card wasn't cast and was moved to a public zone, effects referencing the discarded card can find that object.
In simpler terms, as long as you resolve the Madness trigger first, the Bag trigger can find it if you don't cast it. Shadow can find it when you cast Shadow if you did not cast the card for Madness.
2) This one applies the same rule but you want to apply the triggers in the opposite order. If you have Necro's trigger resolve first, the card is still sitting in Exile due to Madness and Necro can't find it. Then when Madness resolves, and you don't cast it, it goes to the yard as normal. This is not a "new" discard so Necro won't trigger again.
3) This is indeed the same as #1 though the result ends up depending on whose turn it is. If it is your turn, the Tergrid trigger resolves first and they whiff since it isn't in the graveyard at the time the trigger resolves. If it is their turn, they will get it if you don't cast it. Do note that this only works this way due to Tergrid's wording. Specifically, she *can* track it to exile since that is the first public zone it goes to after being discarded and normally would be able to pull it out from there. However, her ability says she will only pull it from the graveyard so while she can track it, she can't pull it out of exile since her ability only pulls things out of the yard.
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ISBPathfinder Bebopin
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: 5 years ago
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- Location: SD, USA
