Mairsil, the Pretender nonsense

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 3 years ago

I'm curious to know how a few really edge Mairsil, the Pretender cases shake out.

Say Mairsil, the Pretender has exiled Corrupting Licid and you attach Mairsil, the Pretender to an opposing creature.

I'm going to ask a bunch of interactions, assume everything has been properly exiled with cage tokens on them.
  • You can move him around with Bloodthirsty Blade's ability?
  • If he's an artifact with Liquimetal Coating, and the creature he's attached to dies. Does he stay on the battlefield because he's an artifact or go to the graveyard because he's a enchantment creature with no creature?
  • Once attached to a creature, he wouldn't be able to use Demonspine Whip's ability even though he's attached as a Licid? But he could use it if he's attached as a licid, turned into an an artifact with Liquimetal Coating, turned into an equipment with Bludgeon Brawl?
  • If he's a licid and attached to a creature. Then he becomes an equipment using Mirage Mirror's ability. He'll stay attached and consider himself "equipped" to that creature until end of turn? If that creature dies, he'll stay an equipment and then die as a state based action without being able to pay the licid cost to turn himself back into a creature?

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by WizardMN » 3 years ago
1) Yes. He still has the other abilities he has and you can attach Auras the same as attaching Equipment. This looks fine.

2) If you don't end the effect, he is still an aura (and an artifact) but he is an Aura that isn't attached to anything so it will go to the graveyard.

3) Again, this seems fine. He is still "equipped" to the creature even though he isn't an equipment. See this rule:

301.5e. An ability of a permanent that refers to the "equipped creature" refers to whatever creature that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn't an Equipment.


4) Mirror doesn't stop it from being an aura so if the creature dies it is still an aura not attached to something so it goes to the graveyard. Again, assuming you don't end the Licid effect.
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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

1) Yes. He still has the other abilities he has and you can attach Auras the same as attaching Equipment. This looks fine.

2) If you don't end the effect, he is still an aura (and an artifact) but he is an Aura that isn't attached to anything so it will go to the graveyard.

3) Again, this seems fine. He is still "equipped" to the creature even though he isn't an equipment. See this rule:

301.5e. An ability of a permanent that refers to the "equipped creature" refers to whatever creature that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn't an Equipment.


4) Mirror doesn't stop it from being an aura so if the creature dies it is still an aura not attached to something so it goes to the graveyard. Again, assuming you don't end the Licid effect.

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Post by Moonlighter » 3 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 years ago
3) Again, this seems fine. He is still "equipped" to the creature even though he isn't an equipment. See this rule:

301.5e. An ability of a permanent that refers to the "equipped creature" refers to whatever creature that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn't an Equipment.


4) Mirror doesn't stop it from being an aura so if the creature dies it is still an aura not attached to something so it goes to the graveyard. Again, assuming you don't end the Licid effect.
I know this is an issue with Layers, and I struggle to think in Layers. For 3) This means we could "attach" Mairsil to a creature an opponent controls using a Licid, and then activate abilities like Ring of Evos Isle without having to somehow turn him into an equipment, correct? 4) Would we still, after using the Mirror, be able to turn him back into a creature using the Licid's ability?
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

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Post by Argus » 3 years ago

Moonlighter wrote:
3 years ago

I know this is an issue with Layers, and I struggle to think in Layers.
These aren't issues with layers, because they don't involve multiple changes to characteristics.
Moonlighter wrote:
3 years ago
For 3) This means we could "attach" Mairsil to a creature an opponent controls using a Licid, and then activate abilities like Ring of Evos Isle without having to somehow turn him into an equipment, correct?
Exactly. The difference between "equipped creature" and "enchanted creature" is that the first reads more easily on an equipment and the second reads more easily on an Aura. There is no rule significance to that difference.
Moonlighter wrote:
3 years ago
4) Would we still, after using the Mirror, be able to turn him back into a creature using the Licid's ability?
If that effect still applies, that includes the last sentence "You may pay B to end this effect." If you end the effect (perhaps in response to something that is likely to remove the creature), that effect is ended.
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?

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Post by Moonlighter » 3 years ago

Okay. Final question for the moment. Let's say you have Mairsil, the Pretender out, and you have caged and exiled Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang. You pay the , and that puts Mairsil in exile (or the CZ), with a 5/5 Spirit out. When it dies, my assumption is that you get Tatsumasa from exile.

PS also thank you guys so much!
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 years ago

No, your assumption is incorrect. When an object uses its name to refer to itself, it just means "this object". When dealing with gaining abilities that use a card name (again, only when it refers to the object that has the ability) it effectively changes the name. So, when Mairsil has Fang's ability it says "exile Mairsil....return Mairsil". So, you still get Mairsil back to the battlefield.

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