UW Control / Superfriends

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

This is a great archetype in Pioneer, at least until banlist hits. I personally am avoiding Dig/Cruise for now, but lots of lists are running them.

Here's my take:
UW Superfriends
Approximate Total Cost:

*Notes- Myth Realized and T3feri make for a very strong starting position. Spell Pierce is pretty great to defend your permanents. Silkwrap is a test but so far it's been quite good. Other lists are appreciated, I don't claim to be any kind of UW master but I'm competent. May as well get some discussion going now, this archetype isn't going anywhere.

Common Game lines for my deck:

*Turn1: Myth Realized > Opt > Spell Pierce (best > worst)
*Turn 2: Search for Azcanta or Silkwrap
*Turn 3: Narset (find an answer) or T3feri bounce a critter
*Turn 4: D. Sphere or Supreme Verdict to stabilize
*Turns 5+ T5feri and Elspeth take over. Azcanta comes online. Castles come online.

After that just do more of everything and its fun.
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Post by Bearscape » 4 years ago

I feel like you should be dipping into black for Pioneer Control lists, if only for Fatal Push. I've seen some people dabbling with Approach of the Second Sun as the wincon for Pioneer Control, which IMO makes sense together with Dig Through Time.

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

Esper is cool, but I'm more interested in UW in Pioneer. Maybe I am the only one here that is. For now. I think UW will become more obvious as the format matures.
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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

Dont sleep on UW...this list is insanely fun:

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

I'll just keep talking to an empty forum I guess hehe. Not going to lie I play this deck a LOT and there is a ton of room for customization. Currently I am testing:

Gideon of the Trials vs Teyo, the Shieldmage. I am testing to see which is better against fast bomat type decks. Gideon is a finisher on his own, all but Teyo buys me turns.
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Post by Dormammu » 4 years ago

I commented on your monoblack deck! I am an anti-counterspell player, so I can't add much to the conversation in this deck but it does look strong.

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Post by FoilSquared » 4 years ago

That sideboard looks a little suspect to me, is Blessed Alliance and Gideon's Reproach that good? Do you need 4 Needles?
EDH:
BTergrid, God of Fright // Tergrid's LanternB

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

FoilSquared wrote:
4 years ago
That sideboard looks a little suspect to me, is Blessed Alliance and Gideon's Reproach that good? Do you need 4 Needles?
They are each good in different ways. I guess if I absolutely had to settle on one or the other I'd take Blessed Alliance. Feel free to use whatever you want in this 4x creature removal slot.
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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago




Echo chamber mode continues, this time with even more useless anecdotal evidence to back up my deck. Been getting a lot of reps in with this list. It felt really good, but then I went and looked at my account history for the past few days and noticed a fairly high win rate. 27-4 if you count it all up. Longest win streak was 13 in a row.

On the losses two clearly stand out: Mono green ramp and Mono black aggro control similar to my other list in here. The match up vs mono black was tough but winnable, this particular green ramp felt really tough and possibly not winnable without sideboard changes.

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago


Update: Last two weeks at Pioneer Tuesday at LGS I took 2nd, and 1st. I hadn't made any adjustments to the list in a long time, so when I finally did tweak something I thought I should share. This is the current list, only changes are -2 Spell Pierce, +2 Brazen Borrower.

I am liking the change a lot so far. Spell Pierce is a solid card but it's dead late game. I admit that dropping a 1cc instant for a 2-3cc card throws off the curve. I am open to ideas to tweak if anyone ever reads this thread.
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Post by motleyslayer » 4 years ago

how do you find the lack of counters such as censor and absorb? I find a lot of UW control lists run them but your list seems more of a super friends lost so it might not work

I'm working on UW control but I don't like censor as much

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Post by robertleva » 4 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
4 years ago
how do you find the lack of counters such as censor and absorb? I find a lot of UW control lists run them but your list seems more of a super friends lost so it might not work

I'm working on UW control but I don't like censor as much
I frequently test out counters, Most recently Thassa's Intervention. This one is not going to make the cut I don't think.

The most effective counterspell so far has been Spell Pierce. Honestly the counterspells are lack luster. I prefer to have hard to answer threats that can protect themselves / control the board instead. I think Petty Theft // Brazen Borrower is fantastic and I like it more thatn any counterspell so far, though I go back and forth with Spell Pierce. Pierce defends your walkers effectively during the vulnerable turns 4-6. It sucks when getting it late game though.

I've got two new additions to my sideboard: Ashiok, Dream Render replaces Rest in Peace for graveyard hate. Ashiok is great again the BG control deck that searches its library often and also uses the graveyard for fuel. The other new card is Lazotep Plating as a multipurpose tool to protect my face from burn and discard and protect my walkers.

A new main board superstar is Heart of Kiran. I could write a lot about this card. It needs a walker heavy build but the synergies that exist are amazing.

Curve: T1 Myth Realized, T2 Kiran, T3 any 3cc walker or D Sphere, T4 Verdict etc.

You can start swinging for 4 in the air on Turn 3 with this set up, You may be +1'ing your Gideon of the trials on turn 3 which neutralizes their top threat. The Heart of Kiran can attack and block because of Vigiliance - the vigilance is what makes the card. This is a difficult position to deal with. This is just one of many lines of play that own.
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Post by motleyslayer » 4 years ago

went 2-1 at a local 8 man yesterday, finished 3rd. Here's my list, I'll give my thoughts after

here's the rundown of my small event

round 1 I 2-1 mono black aggro. Game 1 he puts on early pressure but I resolve both copies of Teferi and a narset that allowed me to stabilize. he got super aggressive with castle lochtwain so he could draw more pressure but I had all the answers. I eventually get Elspeth. Game 2 I mull to 5 and get run over. Game 3 I draw my second d sphere to get rid of 2 scroungers when was at 6. I then draw my nyx fleece ram and use that to gain a bit of life and block. I had a Lyra in hand but wanted to wait until I could protect it. In between playing a Lyra, I draw a second and bait out to copies of murderous ride because he wanted to kill my ram, I countered the first one. Lyra gets me the game

Game 2 I get crushed by a UR midrange, losing 0-2. Game 1 he has a chandra, torch of defiance and a few creatures. I was able to wipe the board but lost to chandra ult. Game 2 I mull and get blown out by his interaction

round 3 I easily 2-0 a mono white equipment pile running cheap double strikers, cheap equipment and Sigarda's Aid o auto-equip equipment when he plays it. Game 1 his deck was too slow. I answered everything then ran away with Elspeth and castle ardenvale tokens. Game 2 he mulled to 6 and got stuck on one land

2-1 final. Room was pretty soft IMO, I feel I didn't play as well as I could have but I need to learn control again.

censor still feels really bad, I think I want spell pierce in some amount but that might be bad too. Narset is a card I'm not convinced on and I think I wanna cut a field of ruin for possibly another cycle land

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

went 2-1 at a small, local event yesterday. Same mb, changes to the sb I made were dropping the Dispel and -Saheeli, Sublime Artificer for 2 Monastery Mentor

Round 1 I get run over by essentially a bant coco deck. Game 1 I kept a really loose 7 not knowing what he was on and got outvalued. Game 2 I mull to 6 and got overwhelmed by his board state. My only out was Settle the Wreckage which he played around really well. He had Selfless Spirit for my other out of Supreme Verdict .

Game 2 I easily 2-0d some Temur deck that relied on Prime Speaker Vannifar to eventually chain into The Locust God , which he said could combo with some other card to draw his deck. Game 1 my deck was pretty easily able to do its thing, I won off Teferi, Hero of Dominaria ult and soldier beatdown. Game 2 He kept a 2 land and mana elf hand. I noticed he stumbled on land turn 3, so I cast a 3feri to bounce a mana elf and bait him into killing tef rather than casting something. Which he fell for. I then wrathed his elves away and sealed the game

Round 3 I 2-1 izzet phoenix. He ran me over g1. Forcing em to have an answer to both triple phoenix and The Royal Scions . G2 he passed with 4 mana so I didn't wanna force a rip into something, so I tried to bait counters by casting a d sphere on a single Thing in the Ice // Awoken Horror , which he let resolve. During his next main phase he cast an Izzet Charm trying to look for gas. He passed and I jammed the rip, which resolved. He then had to hard cast phoenix, which didn't go well for him. G3 he stumbled really bad on mana on a mull to 5 or 6 and scooped to something early

I still feel like I need to tune my list and get more reps in. I feel like i'm not playing overly well and I don't know if I'm sold on my card choices. But I guess I have a few more sets with good cards to choose from

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I still feel like I need to tune my list and get more reps in. I feel like i'm not playing overly well and I don't know if I'm sold on my card choices. But I guess I have a few more sets with good cards to choose from
Couple questions about your list:

Azorious Charm - This card has always been a dud for me, care to outline some profitable play lines with it?
Absorb - Have you tried Render Silent?
T3feri - Why only 3x?
Censor - Another dud for me mostly, although better than charm in my experience. I often swap this out for Azcanta

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I cannot think of a good reason you wouldnt run 1-4 Myth Realized in there.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I'll answer charm and censor at once-they both seem like duds and I don't like them. The more I look at Silkwrap in your lists, they more I like it. I can see myself trying other counter options over censor..

3feri should be a 4 of, I completely forgot I was only running 3 until I looked after the event.

I like adsorb because of the life gain but there's a lot of aggro in my meta

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I'll answer charm and censor at once-they both seem like duds and I don't like them. The more I look at Silkwrap in your lists, they more I like it. I can see myself trying other counter options over censor..

3feri should be a 4 of, I completely forgot I was only running 3 until I looked after the event.

I like adsorb because of the life gain but there's a lot of aggro in my meta
Silkwrap has absolutely made the cut. I have recently been augmenting my removal package with 2x Declaration in Stone. This is a really solid card, and could possibly see higher counts in my lists. The investigation downside put me off it at first but in practice it's a really small price to pay for great effect. And sometimes you wipe a ton of tokens and they get nothing.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I can see myself trying dec in stone as well but Detention Sphere is so good with 3feri and they're so similar. I might look around for other options too

Maybe I'm just way off on dec in stone tbh

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

I'm running 3x Silkwrap, 2x Declaration. I love being able to bounce the silkwrap right before I clear the board with Verdict, but sometimes I just need a critter gone no questions asked. Thats where declaration comes in.

I also hope you try Myth Realized. They are a primary win condition for me.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

Being able to bounce your enchantment removal with 3feri seems like one of the biggest draws to it. I'm still not sold on Myth Realized but I can see myself picking up a few copies of it

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago


Check this list out. It plays amazing, although I never seem to stop tweaking. Teferi Master of Time has been very good, They have fully replaced T5feri and Sharknado. He comes out a Turn earlier and it makes a huge difference.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

Gideon's Triumph seems sweet but I'm not running and Gideon, but I wanna. I run Blessed Alliance which is nice because it's modal. The triumph seems gross with Gideon though

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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

[double post sorry]
Last edited by robertleva 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by robertleva » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
Gideon's Triumph seems sweet but I'm not running and Gideon, but I wanna. I run Blessed Alliance which is nice because it's modal. The triumph seems gross with Gideon though
Another advantage of Triumph over Alliance is that it hits blocking critters as well. And yes, you want to be using Gideon he is so good.

Play line for strong board presence:
1. Myth
2. Kiran
3. Gideon
4. T4feri

Play line for board control
1. Spell Pierce / Opt
2. Azcata / Silkwrap
3. T3feri
4. Supreme verdict


You get the idea. The deck exiles or boardwipes their threats while plopping down walkers that get out of control. Good times.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

Has anyone been working in this deck since the bans? I don't know how much the ban of Teferi, Time Raveler hurts the deck. But deck can probably adapt

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